Why a server wipe or a new server would be a good thing

[Kergan]

I'm going to say upfront that I read the original post and none of the 7 pages of replies.

You just can't flush 2 year worth of peoples time down the drain. Even if it would ultimately lead to a better server, you'd lose a huge chunk of the population that don't want to reinvest that kind of time and ultimately undermine what you're trying to do - boost population.

T99 is the best option at this point. You'll have new people going there for a fresh start, old people coming back to play on it and a huge chunk of R99 that will go there or play on both. R99 will suffer population wise for awhile but ultimately a merge will bring two low population servers together to hopefully make a medium (200-300 prime time) population server.

History has shown a lot of smaller spikes in population tied to specific events (exp bonuses, EQMac shut down, etc) but it seems like over the last 6-8 months you'll see a spike to 200ish prime time players after one of those events then a slow decay to 100ish. You can blame whatever you want but that's just the way it is.

The only way to increase population is to do something that will both bring in an influx of new players and bring a lot of old players out of retirement. I think T99 will do the former, and Velious the later.

I wish people would realize that low population is NOT always a bad thing. Uncontested spawns almost all over the world, if you came in with a crew of 3-4 people you could power through the old world doing whatever camps you want then pick one of the two options at the end game.

I've also said it before in other threads, the devs are not a solution to this problem - the players are. I saw in another thread HB is going to be doing some free JC/gear giveaways and events for new players. That is the kind of thing that kickstarts people through the relative isolation of the 20-40 range and gets them to the point where they can actually interact with the majority of the server and I give him props for it.

[Kaahbal]

Originally Posted by Kaahbal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uhm i actually like his ideas, made me really looking back 15 years to the elfs vs gnomes mass pvps in gfay, or the thrill of sneaking a troll on the boat to faywder to try and trade in gfay.

I agree that certain ppl/guilds exploiting at server launch in combination of the grind being to slow and exp loss on pvp making plugging an all time high in everquest. Also lack of contesting due to the fact that u had to grind 4 hours to regain the exp for a pvp death on level 60.

Regarding to item loot, ive seen both good and bad things come out of it, problem is alot of naked wizards and mages rollin around risking nothing, and melees have to equip shit to stand a chance, however with custom no drops, that would be resolved.

Whats the most important to remember is that population is KEY, we lack this, and no matter what path devs choose to go i hope we csn re-attain s healthy population somehow.

VZTZ had a solid 250+ pop even after 3 big wipes, all these happened where people had around the same BiS as they do on this server (-VP+Rile/Painroot/Tychus Zeksworn).

When we all started on red99 at launch, is the outcome of what we hoped for what the server is in its current form?

Current P99 red
1. Good anti-cheat - first boxes on EMU
2. Good coded 1999 everquest world (quests/mechanics)
3. Working economy

VZTZ Servers
1. Ability to 2box
2. EXP rates that made u get to a competative level without having to retire from your real life. Made focus on PVP instead of PVE with the option of occasional PVP.
3. No PVP exp loss
4. Item loot on 1.0, problem was however as i said before the naked casters rolling around everywhere risking nada.

Imagine a fresh R99
1. Working anti-cheat + p1999 server code and working economy.
2. Most exploits have been sorted during these years of R99 beta.
3. Big population + 2boxing enabled (rather log on a server with 600-1000 charachters than 50).
4. Quick EXP, making it viable for new players to get in on highend action quickly.
5. Progression style PVE content unlock, kunark straight after Innoruuk/CT/EoV dies etc, all the way up to velious.
6. Variance where 1-2 raid mobs would be around each day, always something to fight over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9No-_1cNvg

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm going to say upfront that I read the original post and none of the 7 pages of replies.

You just can't flush 2 year worth of peoples time down the drain. Even if it would ultimately lead to a better server, you'd lose a huge chunk of the population that don't want to reinvest that kind of time and ultimately undermine what you're trying to do - boost population.

T99 is the best option at this point. You'll have new people going there for a fresh start, old people coming back to play on it and a huge chunk of R99 that will go there or play on both. R99 will suffer population wise for awhile but ultimately a merge will bring two low population servers together to hopefully make a medium (200-300 prime time) population server.

History has shown a lot of smaller spikes in population tied to specific events (exp bonuses, EQMac shut down, etc) but it seems like over the last 6-8 months you'll see a spike to 200ish prime time players after one of those events then a slow decay to 100ish. You can blame whatever you want but that's just the way it is.

The only way to increase population is to do something that will both bring in an influx of new players and bring a lot of old players out of retirement. I think T99 will do the former, and Velious the later.

I wish people would realize that low population is NOT always a bad thing. Uncontested spawns almost all over the world, if you came in with a crew of 3-4 people you could power through the old world doing whatever camps you want then pick one of the two options at the end game.

I've also said it before in other threads, the devs are not a solution to this problem - the players are. I saw in another thread HB is going to be doing some free JC/gear giveaways and events for new players. That is the kind of thing that kickstarts people through the relative isolation of the 20-40 range and gets them to the point where they can actually interact with the majority of the server and I give him props for it.

Teams server to me is a really hard sell, because i beleive it is harder to make things work on a team server than a FFA because of how less fluid "team components" are. So if you get into a situation like the mid-life situation i described in my OP, where one guild gets overly dominant, the server is basically done. It could work but requires alot more attention than a proper FFA server one needs. You cant have Heartbrand "break away from the team" with others to try to shake things up, status quo is set in stone.

To be honest now that ive had time to digest my own post and the replies to it, i beleive the rebirth will come from somewhere else, or not at all. Someone might start a server with a ruleset like ive described and annihilate Red99 like DAOC Origins finished off DAOC Uthgard.

I agree that player made events is a really great thing to do, but its never gonna make red99 get alot of population. What you need is a server that gets the pop DAOC origins got, but with everything right straight off the bat so you keep that population around and the thing just keeps snowballing in the right direction.

[Kergan]

Player driven stuff doesn't attract new players but it might help keep people around who decide to try. There have been several times in the last 6 months where we've had 200+ online, so why does it fall back to 100? Simple answer is people stop playing. Maybe the spikes aren't what they are appear, and it's just 50 old players coming back to plvl an alt with an exp bonus before Velious release, I dunno. But I suspect at least some of them are new to the server and they make the decision to leave after a few weeks. That's not enough time to see the end game situation so my only theory is they are bored or get shit on by PK alts.

And didn't Uthgard shut down for awhile? R99 has two major things going for it that will make it very difficult for another red server to overtake it. One, it has the Project1999 brand name, support and most importantly the code. Second, the majority of the people interested in playing PVP have a lot of time invested there and it would take a lot to get them to walk away from it.

And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you regarding a teams ruleset, but I think it would be silly to roll out another R99/FFA clone. Maybe some people are interested in a "purple" server but not red. Anything you can do to grab a few dozen more people should be done.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And didn't Uthgard shut down for awhile? R99 has two major things going for it that will make it very difficult for another red server to overtake it. One, it has the Project1999 brand name, support and most importantly the code. Second, the majority of the people interested in playing PVP have a lot of time invested there and it would take a lot to get them to walk away from it.

And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you regarding a teams ruleset, but I think it would be silly to roll out another R99/FFA clone. Maybe some people are interested in a "purple" server but not red. Anything you can do to grab a few dozen more people should be done.

Uthgard closing down was announced after its pop took a heavy nosedive with the opening of origins. Im not aware if it had shutting down periods before origins opened that made people get tired of uth on top of origins opening.

Uthgard had the brand name too, it didnt change anything when it looked like another team was giving it a shot. If random server 123 pops up its not going to do anything. But a proper server with a proper forum and a team behind it, then i see it happening.

I know people invested alot of time on red, but look at people on uth. 5 years. To then have server reset because another server got it right. Better to cut your losses early. But like i said, i dont beleive it will happen. Just had to write my OP to be done with it, to stop being tempted to give feedback to steer things in a better direction.

The ruleset ive described is not a red99 clone. I guess you had to be on Rallos to see really what i am talking about with Gfay being the core zone and how vibrant, fun and different from red99 that zone was. To see the madness that was the 2001 halloween event and doing a /who in EK bringing up 205 players who are pvping over event mobs.

[Kergan]

I played on RZ up to Velious in The Begotten and raided with the sabbat. That server was even "bluer" than here. SZ had far more PVP with that ruleset.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on RZ up to Velious in The Begotten and raided with the sabbat. That server was even "bluer" than here. SZ had far more PVP with that ruleset.

Lol youre joking right. Were you here when red99 launched? There was like 1000% more pvp on Rallos than what you saw on red. Nay, 2000% i say. And people didnt cry about it either, they had fun doing it. The zone between HHK and kithicor with orcs (forget the name) had constant PVP. South Karana/North Karana zone line was always busy with PVP. Gfay? PVP. Crushbone? PVP. Queynos hills? PVP. Blackburrow? PVP. Unrest? PVP. Library in tower of frozen shadows? PVP. The cook camp in velious? PVP. Thurgadin entrance? PVP. Im sure some old school flowers of happiness can tell you all about it, i used to duke it out with FOH all the time around the crushbone entrance.

One of my most memorable ganks on Rallos was 3 guys jumping me in Queynos hills. I follow them to Queynos and start nuking the fuck out of them from rooftops, until they begged me to stop in tells. These kind of fun situations were a dime a dozen on Rallos with pvp happening left and right. That kind of fun was cruelly missing from red because of xp loss in pvp for the first 18 months or something till it was removed, waaaay too late.

[Kergan]

Was not here for R99 launch. I'll say, there is more PVP in the Kunark era here than on RZ by a huge amount. That's the era I have experience on both servers.

[Nirgon]

Even if RZ had 20% of the PvP, it still had 80% more players.

I'll go with there were more player deaths on any given day of RZ than here.

Not to mention... I miss making lvl 5 SK pks with 2 rusty 2 handers. You could put 4 good hours a day of lulz into that. NOT HERE.


Oh ya, item loot = most red thing ever. WoW is that way.

[Kergan]

Yeah, it's possible there were more total kills I guess, with probably 7-8x the population. But the high end consisted of a half dozen random PKs and an occasional war between guilds that lasted a few weeks...not much else. Certainly nothing like the Az/RD vs Nihilum here.