Stop the Socking

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO's answer for everything: This is how WE do it in VP so it must be the best way for everything!

Footraces, as Chest continues to point out, just bring up new issues and dont really change much besides the FTE meta game landscape.

The FTE meta game landscape is not what most are interested in worrying about, its the entire raid scene and practice of raiding large targets for ALL GUILDS.

We could talk about different FTE mechanics til we are blue in the face.

Until changes are made to:

1. Variance
2. R/C/FFA cycle
3. How guilds move up and down the tiers

Nothing will be fundamentally different, socking included.

I think Ele's post needs to be continued to quoted and reposted because it actually poses a useful question:

What does the staff consider 'poopsocking'?

I was brainstorming somethings and I kept getting hung up on the numbers thing.

So 2 trackers ( usually mages ) which means you have 2 FTEers....so 4 people in zone cant be considered poopsocking.....Ok so no more than a full group of people....um now we are getting into silly rules where people cant zone into a dungeon without reading a manual....bah that doesnt improve anything...

is usually my thought process, its not an easy thing to figure out how to fix, mainly because as other people in this thread pointed out....the game of EQ revolves around poopsocking or camping things. Hard to change how to fundamentally play the game.

No what Chest wants is just an overhaul of the system that expressly benefits his play style. What you need is a middle ground that doesn't ask for a complete overhaul of the way things are now. Foot races with designated starting points. Only 2 people from each guild can race for the mob with 1 tracker out in the zone tracking. Lower the variance. Simple solutions without asking for things that benefits one playstyle over others.

What it does.

-It limits the number of racers TMO/IB can have for the mob to the level of what Class R guilds can produce.
-It reduces the time Class R guilds have to dedicate to it.
-It puts in the potential for player error. The tracker might go afk at a bad time etc.
-Everyone has a defined guideline to follow that isn't difficult to understand.
-The gray area is gone. If you get FTE with someone other than the 2 at the "Starting Line" someone obviously broke the rules.

[Nirgon]

Broken variance

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seb is just a tough zone to have a natural race

This is true for pretty much all indoor zones. It just so happens that Trakanon is the only target in an indoor zone in Kunark. In Velious . . . .

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is true for pretty much all indoor zones. It just so happens that Trakanon is the only target in an indoor zone in Kunark. In Velious . . . .

Yep. It just has more to do too with the amount of people that XP/farm camps in Seb. I'd be all for trying it out myself. But there will be petitions through the roof.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No what Chest wants is just an overhaul of the system that expressly benefits his play style. What you need is a middle ground that doesn't ask for a complete overhaul of the way things are now. Foot races with designated starting points. Only 2 people from each guild can race for the mob with 1 tracker out in the zone tracking. Lower the variance. Simple solutions without asking for things that benefits one playstyle over others.

edit: you edit'd fast and answered some of my questions...but


Having 2 racers from each guild means that they have to 'officially' sign in else we are asking those standing there to take fraps/SSs/logs of who is waiting......

Thats the beauty of COH mages, they can only COH one person....so some of this extra evidence gathering and footwork is not even required to figure out what happened

Add another layer if you are going to require racers to 'have sow only as max run speed'....

this is what others are complaining about, even TMO, everyone doesnt want more layers of rules n crap that new guilds/players who join the server get to raid have to take a night class to understand how to tag a dragon

it seems 'racing' has even more stipulations and rules than using mages, the only problem with mages people have is the ducking.

Ducking can be fixed or barred 'illegal' but then like Nemce's post in raid discussion proved, its nearly futile and pointless to try to police 'someone casting X spell Y number of times in a row'

Which brings us full circle.

R/C sim repops= FFA

Class C can have a larger bag limit ( 4 mobs ) since they are the tier that is entitled to more loot, but at least the FTE meta game is only played among-st the most neckbeardy and then the entire server can enjoy the entire spawn of mobs on a repop ( not including VP unless u wanna become Class C)


Otherwise, making the Variance 4 hours and letting people go hog wild in poopsocks, coh ducking, etc at least it wont take up entire days of waiting and can be more enjoyable even if its not classic and unappetizing to see...

[YendorLootmonkey]

If the problem is too many guilds are capable of killing too many raid targets, then scale up the difficulty of the raid targets until Velious drops. Not classic, but it addresses the unique environment we have caused by too many guilds capable of killing every raid target.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Korben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 needs black and white rules else people will habitually line step if there's any gray area.

Then again I think the habitual like steppers should just be outright banned, it's not like after 4 years of doing it they can maintain plausible deniability about the rules and what is right and wrong... even though that's the story every time.

Personally, I think 16 hour windows are a huge contributor to the issue, and it also puts the smaller guilds at a disadvantage when they have to muster a Trak force at 4:14AM, after having the majority of their guild on alert for 12+ hours leading up to it.

On to the real socking issue, spawns like VS are just an ugly nightmare, and like you said you get someone with FTE to stall until their 40 friends run in to take a shit on him... In that specific circumstance I don't even know why we don't just allow spawn socking and no window, just pop him on a known timer.

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[Raev]

I do not understand why the staff is unwilling to consider the R/C + FFA system (unless they just are against anything that Chest wants). I appreciate the huge amount of time the developers put in to this, but this should be a 2-3 line change: Mobs go C->R instead of C->FFA, and if(repop) -> do nothing. I can't imagine it taking Rogean more than an hour to make this happen.

Originally Posted by Sirken

This system was created and implemented with the expectation that most of the FFA mobs would go to Class C.

I thought the point of the new system was to make competitive raiding more fun. The R rotation has been a success; the competitive changes have not. And its easy to try some fixes, so why is it all about making sure TMO/IB get pixels for their alts?

I say fuck the bag limits, and if TMO/IB can kill 10 targets before the R guilds more power to them. I just want the actual process of competing to be fun. And then we shall see who is good, and who is not.

[Korben]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for someone picking up on that, and damn me for typo!

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

edit: you edit'd fast and answered some of my questions...but


Having 2 racers from each guild means that they have to 'officially' sign in else we are asking those standing there to take fraps/SSs/logs of who is waiting......

This is just wrong. No one says you have to sign in. Everyone standing on the starting line sees who is there. Hitting Print Screen as you start to run isn't hard anyway.

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thats the beauty of COH mages, they can only COH one person....so some of this extra evidence gathering and footwork is not even required to figure out what happened

There is no beauty to CotH mages. This is just the same as gating to a bind spot except for the fact the Mages are the mobile bind point. It requires a specific resource that not all smaller guilds have. This excludes some guilds from being able to participate legitimately. I thought we all wanted the same thing here ? More guilds with more opportunities.

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Add another layer if you are going to require racers to 'have sow only as max run speed'....

Again these are minor details if you want to limit the use of bards discuss that. Using SoW only is restrictive, but it sure beats CotH ducking. We do that for VP races. If you want to allow any class that is fine as well. Just discuss what you as Class R guilds think is the fairest.

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is what others are complaining about, even TMO, everyone doesnt want more layers of rules n crap that new guilds/players get to raid have to take a night class to understand how to tag a dragon

There is no layers of rules in what I posted. You seem to be the one pushing for layers of rules. Say "SoW only" if that is what you want and a lot will likely agree. I am sure guilds have access to bards for the most part though. It's an easy thing to work out.

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it seems 'racing' has even more stipulations and rules than using mages, the only problem with mages people have is the ducking.

Blatantly False. The same rules apply. Trackers can't FTE and the people racing instead of being Coth'ed can. Simple.

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ducking can be fixed or barred 'illegal' but then like Nemce's post in raid discussion proved, its nearly futile and pointless to try to police 'someone casting X spell Y number of times in a row'

Which brings us full circle.

R/C sim repops= FFA

Class C can have a larger bag limit ( 4 mobs ) since they are the tier that is entitled to more loot, but at least the FTE meta game is only played among-st the most neckbeardy and then the entire server can enjoy the entire spawn of mobs on a repop ( not including VP unless u wanna become Class C)


Otherwise, making the Variance 4 hours and letting people go hog wild in poopsocks, coh ducking, etc at least it wont take up entire days of waiting and can be more enjoyable even if its not classic and unappetizing to see...

It seems all you want to do is spin what I posted to push your own agenda. You didn't give any real concerns just hypothetical ones that naturally wouldn't arise.
.