Public Raid Petitions: P99 Freedom of Information Act

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have any of you advocates actually looked at the workings of precedence-based legal systems (like, oh, say, the U.S.)?

Yes. I am extremely familiar with the concept of jurisprudence and its applications.

Originally Posted by kaev

you're advocating redefining LawyerQuest in the most awful way imaginable.

I disagree. "LawyerQuest" is already at its maximum potential. Dozens, if not hundreds, of conversations occur over Skype, via PM, and in game every time one these petitions is made. Guilds and their advocates are already throwing the kitchen sink during argument, and there's very little room to make it more complicated.

Making petitions open will have two effects the make your fears unnecessary.

1) Public communications will force the petitions and responses to be concise, appropriate, and exhaustive. No more back and forth of he said she said for days and weeks on end. Open petitions, by their nature, demand that the argument be front loaded. Thus, your fear that LawyerQuest will escalate is put to rest.

2) The rules come first. The precedence is in the application of those rules only. This means that there is ultimately less room for argument and that the rules will become more and more defined as time passes. This means that LawyerQuest will become increasingly restricted as time passes.

I understand your desire to eliminate pointless argument and unjust situations, but private petitions with no formal organization for their resolution are not efficient, nor are they conducive to justice and fair play.

[Pringles]

Originally Posted by Clasick [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rule lawyering would start working in petition case law digging up and quoting various GM rulings. It's not so much about consistent rulings it's about every situation being unique.

This.

We are going to start seeing "in the case of TMO vs IB in trakanon spawn 2641 on nov twenty one two thousand and fourteen it was stated that each party is blah blah blah"

The rule lawyering will be elevated to a whole new level of stupidity.

Also, if this does go through, what will you all bitch about when staff is proven to not be "corrupt" in their raid rulings? There is comedic value there!

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Pringles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are going to start seeing "in the case of TMO vs IB in trakanon spawn 2641

This is already the case.

Providing public accountability will only serve to reduce this as I explained above.

[Pringles]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is already the case.

Providing public accountability will only serve to reduce this as I explained above.

The lawyering will increase ten fold.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Pringles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The lawyering will increase ten fold.

Could always take them back to being private if it does increase.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Pringles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The lawyering will increase ten fold.

The GM's have spent at least 7 hours in Skype (that I am aware of, possibly more) regarding the TMO/IB suspension alone.

Public petitions with established procedures cannot possibly be as inefficient as the current process. To say that "lawyering" will increase isn't specific enough. Public petitions with established procedures are, by their nature, front loaded. There is no back and forth "lawyering." Both sides lay out their case, and a ruling is issued. It cannot be more simple or fairer than that.

[Troubled]

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[Shinko]

Originally Posted by Pringles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The lawyering will increase ten fold.

just make it like the raid forums and keep the trolls out

[Erati]

how would this work practically?

would the GMs have to gather everything and post a 'Petition Summary with results'?

would the 'wronged' party run there and spew a bunch of keyboard vomit then the accused has X amount of time to respond with their side and then the GMs post final verdict? ( seems kinda dumb if thats the case as that original petition will be picked apart by the public well before the accused even responds )

i dont think this decreases any of the GMs work, however I would love if there was more transparency and consistency. Its insane they have to put in a full day of work via Skyping the raid guilds, that should not be happening to that extent unless Sirk/Deru really enjoy Skyping TMO/IB

I guess the best thing in my mind to do if something like this were to happen is to simply keep public records of the 'original complaint/petition' and the outcome. This way future rulings can start to become more consistent.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

How much would it cost to install security cameras at all raid target sites?