Hey Forsaken

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Prismaticshop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

when I looked in game yesterday they had many new names that aren't on that list who come from several class R guilds, but I guess what matters is at the time of death of these kills which were their first.

I'd love to see names/numbers to back that up, and I'd like to see the same for the IB/A-Team merger for comparison. However, the fundamental difference between the two situations was killing class R targets. You can't really overlook that.

[Prismaticshop]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd love to see names/numbers to back that up, and I'd like to see the same for the IB/A-Team merger for comparison. However, the fundamental difference between the two situations was killing class R targets. You can't really overlook that.

According to the raid system they were class R.

The nuance being debated here is what makes you a new entity, which is ruled on with different outcomes according to the number of new players you inject in the said entity.

Had Forsaken had more "new blood", let's say atleast 25 or 30% of new players, I'm sure Rogean would had ruled differently.

However, this ruled isn't stated anywhere, it's totally subjective.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd love to see names/numbers to back that up, and I'd like to see the same for the IB/A-Team merger for comparison. However, the fundamental difference between the two situations was killing class R targets. You can't really overlook that.

new guild kills what it wants. its like saying if TMO broke up and most of there members joined Taken so now Taken is locked out... idiotic....

[Misek84]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd love to see names/numbers to back that up, and I'd like to see the same for the IB/A-Team merger for comparison. However, the fundamental difference between the two situations was killing class R targets. You can't really overlook that.

The fundamental issue is the same: is forshaken a new entity thus allowed to start in class R, or is Rampage a new entity thus exempt from IB suspension. No idea how much more clearer i can get. There are no specific guidelines (75%, etc) but both reforms were basicly the same(new leadership, new dkp, new site). However in one instance staff argued that it was a new entity and that guild got no really penalty but in the other instance they argued it was NOT a new entity and they got a very harsh penalty. By defination it seems biased.

[Misek84]

Originally Posted by Prismaticshop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Forsaken is taking 2 weeks suspension, it's not that bad tbh.

Though you could argue when an new entity is a new entity ?

IB became Rampage : New website (x) , New leadership (x) , New Guild Name (x) , bigger chunk of new players (like 70% of A team came over) , 10 or 15% of IB quit.

TMO Becomes Forsaken : new website (x) , new leadership(x), new guild name (x), some TMO quit, some fresh blood from R guilds (x).

Yet harsh suspension. clear double standard here, but Rogean does what he does, it's his box I guess.

Agree with you fully except with the part that it isnt that harsh. If forshaken was established and "winning" it wouldnt be that harsh. But for a guild just trying to reorganize and get back into it, it is harsh, especially considering velious is around the corner. Momentum is one of the main parts needed to succeed in this game

[arsenalpow]

IB (a class C guild) absorbs most of A-Team (a class R guild) and some free agents (Argh, Cucumbers) and renames themselves Rampage. They kill class C targets. Rampage still serves a portion of IB's pending suspensions: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...60&postcount=5

TMO (a class C guild) absorbs no one, only removes a handful of people from their roster, and renames themselves Forsaken. They kill class R targets.

I know you TMO apologists want to defend this crap but it's not a double standard. The only relevant piece of information linking these two scenarios is that each situation resulted in a new guild name.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB (a class C guild) absorbs most of A-Team (a class R guild) and some free agents (Argh, Cucumbers) and renames themselves Rampage. They kill class C targets. Rampage still serves a portion of IB's pending suspensions: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...60&postcount=5

TMO (a class C guild) absorbs no one, only removes a handful of people from their roster, and renames themselves Forsaken. They kill class R targets.

I know you TMO apologists want to defend this crap but it's not a double standard. The only relevant piece of information linking these two scenarios is that each situation resulted in a new guild name.

Wait you are saying TMO was suspended at the time it dissolved? Do you even know how to compare like instances?

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait you are saying TMO was suspended at the time it dissolved? Do you even know how to compare like instances?

I don't see any reference to TMO suspension in his post. Do you reading comprehension?

[Prismaticshop]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB (a class C guild) absorbs most of A-Team (a class R guild) and some free agents (Argh, Cucumbers) and renames themselves Rampage. They kill class C targets. Rampage still serves a portion of IB's pending suspensions: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...60&postcount=5

TMO (a class C guild) absorbs no one, only removes a handful of people from their roster, and renames themselves Forsaken. They kill class R targets.

I know you TMO apologists want to defend this crap but it's not a double standard. The only relevant piece of information linking these two scenarios is that each situation resulted in a new guild name.

Chest I like you, but you are not reading what Sirken said :

"this is not the case with Rampage, and so i did not treat them that way. and as i told TMO, if they want to disband their guild to form another guild, if they want to wipe dkp, if they want to shut down the TMO website, if they install new leadership, and if they did all that without knowing that the suspension was coming (to ensure it wasnt being done to circumvent me), then id be ok with it. and that was why I told Rampage that they would not be suspended."

No suspension from IB followed Rampage under their new guild tag.

so what is your point bud?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Prismaticshop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Chest I like you, but you are not reading what Sirken said :

"this is not the case with Rampage, and so i did not treat them that way. and as i told TMO, if they want to disband their guild to form another guild, if they want to wipe dkp, if they want to shut down the TMO website, if they install new leadership, and if they did all that without knowing that the suspension was coming (to ensure it wasnt being done to circumvent me), then id be ok with it. and that was why I told Rampage that they would not be suspended."

No suspension from IB followed Rampage under their new guild tag.

so what is your point bud?

Gotta keep reading sir:

Originally Posted by Sirken

That said, multiple staff members have reviewed this decision, and it has been decided that these punishments will still remain with any players that were IB tagged at the time of the incident, as well as any players that are currently tagged under IB.

This resulted in Rampage just taking the suspension outright. I don't think they even attempted to go after targets with just former a-team members.