ive been playing monsters and memories for 2 nights now

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The halfling warriors I was watching a a week or 2 ago on youtube had little backpacks and it was cute as.

Mhm! Backpack is a huge upgrade compared to the belt pouches too. Was a big deal when I got my first one!

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There's an option in-game to hide it, but it looks so cool on my Goblin that I left it on, lol.

[shovelquest]

I bought a wrist pouch for my first purchase on live in 1999.

I wanted to kill myself when i realized i couldn't equip it on my wrist slot.

[shovelquest]

Petition to make these things equipable, and backbacks to go into the back slot. And wasit pouches to go on the belt slot.

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[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Ekco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.

No hate, but I'm actually surprised you didn't like Night Harbor. Did you try it in the recent play test? Because when I saw MnM in previous play tests.... I actually didn't try it because of how raw and unfinished it look. This was my first play test and I actually got chills because Night Harbor is basically how I pictured Freeport if it was a real place (I used to day dream about Norrath being a real place as a kid). Especially at night time. Looks so real with all the darkness and lighting.

But I'll be honest I did start in the elf town and spent an entire night just wandering around exploring the forest because of how huge and how much cool stuff was in it. Really reminded me of a modern GFAY. The boat ride over was insane too, it's not boring like it is in P99, it feels more like you're on an amusement ride. Of course the boat dumped me in the ocean when I zoned into Sanded Dune, which is basically Oasis. I remember being dumbfounded when I swam to shore and realized they had the Oasis zone in the game ... again, it's how I would imagine Oasis of Marr if it were a real place. The sunsets coming off the ocean are so blinding and real it's insane to me.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, their version of Kelethin is a 1:1 at first glance. Really? Why not have all the trees burnt, dead, or dying, overtaken by silkworms? With the city being rebuilt amid that pervasive threat/stubborn blemish. Then it still could have been a familiar setting but not too samey. And then there would be widespread environmental storytelling that players couldn't ignore.

There are a lot of these missed opportunities that shouldn't need to be pointed out.

Like, I just had biryani for the first time recently and as someone who eats rice dishes regularly, it was a pleasant surprise that took some getting used to. Same base ingredient. Rice. And yet wildly different, practically in its own category. Cooks understand this, why can't devs?

I'm not sure if you're being serious right now? I spent probably 8 hours exploring the new elf zone because it's that huge and just when you think you've seen it all, you come across something entirely new. The city itself is so massive I can't even think of a city in Norrath to compare it to because none of them close in size. There are areas of the city that have been over-run by spiders, so the guards cut the bridges to stop the spread and high levels can venture into this area to grind exp. There are so many more lifts and each one of them lead to an area of the zone that is unique and completely different. In GFAY you have basically one orc camp that can sustain a single group.

In Evershade Weald there are enough unique and interesting camps to sustain hundreds of players. Some of the lifts lead you to the newby zone, other's lead you to very high level areas of the game, others lead you to a mountainous / cave area, as you actually explore the zone there's all kinds of fallen logs with Mushroom men, lots of areas with orc camps, crypts with undead, I mean it's just this massive place compared to Gfay, you could literally walk around for 6 hours and not even see half of the content in said zone, not to mention it's attached to a zone that is very similar to West Karana.

That's one of the problems with P99 even to this day, if you don't get a group in Unrest, there are no other zones to level in, whereas on Antonica you can always grind in Oasis, Karana, Beholder's Maze, Lavastorm etc. On P99 .. on Faydwer you basically get in the one group for your level range in Unrest or you don't really level your character passed level 12.

Also Evershade Weald has lakes and rivers, you can actually fish and what not. I remember always being confused as a kid when I would look at the map and see bodies of water in Faydwer, yet there were none in game. The docks in Felwithe never made sense to me... be cause where did they go to?

Also the elven city isn't even finished. As you get to the top of the elven city there's another elevator that takes you even higher to an unfinished area. You are so high up at this point it's actually scary, it feels like being on top of the world's tallest building etc.

I really don't understand how anyone could even confuse this place with a exact copy of Kelethin. The newby lift alone is several hundred feet in the air, there's no falling from the top and surviving even if you are max level.

Also it's cool how the forest is much darker than the Night Harbor area. Explains the Infravision I guess.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

UI, dwarf barrel roll, cat rooms, cracked staff paydirt, etc. Uninspiring copy/paste.

For the many classes available, somehow it still feels lacking. Yes, early development can and will leave that impression but still.

Using paladins as an example...

Paladins do have shield toss and slam, so that gives more reason to equip a shield this time around but still limited because you can't toss, say, a tower shield. A charge ability would have better suited the shieldbearing class, adding burst mobility and more damage/style points to the attack, with potential for stun, knockback/down, etc. without limiting the shield type. Lay on Hands could have healed based on the paladin's HP pool, cured disease/poison/debuffs, and applied a rune effect for any overhealing, so the ability wouldn't necessarily be wasted on lower level unbuffed players. Instead, it just heals for X amount of HP, a large number but nothing that can be altered, nothing that encourages the player to feel motivated to test builds and get creative with their gear.

Apparently, paladins also get undead snare in addition to undead fear which will let them solo the way rangers do here, except versus a mob type that will probably be less common. They also get a brief frontal cone mez, but only the one spell early on, its reliability questionable later? Mark of the Crusader is just Mark of Karn. Deflect is just a watered down Sanctification as a spell rather than disc. Divine Aegis is temp invulnerability again but this time it prevents all other magical effects of its kind from being applied for 1min, so no DA idol, Dain's orders, etc. Supplication is just Yaulp without attack, AC, or stamina return. The entire line only increases STR. Overall, disappointing and not different enough from the EQ version to consider leveling. Vanguard, for example, granted the class any one of three auras to benefit their party and an offensive/defensive target, enabling rescue. Those features right there already offer more than what was listed above.

But there are so many other games to lift ideas from, not even other MMOs but action RPGs, that would make gameplay more engaging and fun to watch.




FWIW multiple EQ veteran players in various discord channels have commented saying that the novelty wore off within the first couple of hours and that the "sandwich gameplay" got boring fast, which is saying something coming from players willing to sock p99 windows. This is the supposed demographic and many of them aren't sold on it. A few are, but the niche won't have enough of a cult to fill its world if it's only appealing to a fraction of this aging playerbase.

This is legitimate feedback, hopefully you post it somewhere that devs can read it. I don't play a Paladin but I'm not crazy about them pigeon holing the class into being the shield class since I envision them as the class that wielded the Fiery Avenger. But I guess they may reason that it's okay because the shield doesn't actually have to be equipped in order to use (some?) of the shield abilities.

The only thing I disagree with with this sentiment (since the rest is legitimate feedback) is that they need to make this game more like an action RPG. Which again, I may be misinterpreting what you meant by that, if so, I apologize. I actually play a lot of Retail WoW, even actively played it prior to MnM launched (canceled sub afterwards). It's not that I don't appreciate action RPGs, it's just that like.... IDK, there's something super chill and relaxing about MnM that I really enjoy. Sitting on a beach in Sanded Dunes drinking coffee, listening to some good music, just casually grinding some EXP out. You don't really get that type of vibe from WoW where you're constantly mashing buttons as fast as you can and can't even glance at your character or your environment because you're too busy staring at the cooldowns on your abilities the entire time. Zero down time and no incentive to just chill out in the world somewhere, sharing a campfire with complete strangers, trading buffs and heals, chit chatting about the world and the game.

You just don't get this from an action RPG. I think it's fine to have the genres separate. I think there's enough space for both.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unpolished EQ clone is an absolutely absurd remark. MnM is definitely more polished than classic era EQ, and its not particularly close. Your other points really are your opinions so have so I'm not going to bother critiquing them but to be honest it sounds like you are passing judgements as someone who literally never tried it out.

Also the Red comparison is just ridiculous. EQ PVP was always largely unpopular, because the game wasn't originally designed with PVP in mind. Even the old VZTZ boxes before p99 existed never really broke more than couple hundred players at their peaks. P99 came out and exploded pretty much immediately despite VZTZ iterations being around for years on EQEmu.

MnM also has a pvp server and I can almost guarantee its going to suffer the same fate as Red and and the VZTZ boxes before it. That doesnt mean its PVE servers are going to have the same problem.

Its got something going for it that p99 or any classic EQ private server never will. Completely brand new game, new world, new content, but plays very similarly in style, and its done in the Unity engine which actually looks pretty good. Not saying its going to have 100k+ subscriptions and compete with big name MMO's but to assume its going to rapidly fizzle out like a classic EQ pvp server is crazy tbh.

They also have quite a long timeline already planned out for gradual new content releases which is always encouraging for potential players.

Yeah the PvP server looked DOA to me, and I have no interest in it even though I love the PvP in WoW. For me the reason EQ was such a superior game in many regards is because it wasn't balanced around PvP (it wasn't really balanced at all, every class has something that makes them OP and/or shitty in other ways). I would be completely okay with them not really doing anything with PvP at all honestly. I get a pretty good PvP fix just from doing BGs or Arenas in WoW, as I associate PvP more with WoW than EQ.

All that being said, I actually think this game is going to be a lot more popular than people realize. I genuinely don't think that MnM is just going to be a game played exclusively by 40+ year old EQ veteran boomers. During this play test I played with a bunch of young folks who admittedly never even heard of EQ before playing MnM and they all seemed to really enjoy it. There's a ton of high rating WoW players in the MnM Discord who already love this game.

I think it's going to be one of those games you see people like streamers talking about in a few months. Especially the Classic WoW crowd. Genuinely believe that. Game like this would probably even appeal to a lot of people who normally play survival games, it has a lot of those elements, cutting down trees, starting a camp fire, killing animals and cooking them etc.

I really expect all of my friends who never played EQ but know I played it to be asking me if I've ever heard of MNM before in the near future.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by Wakanda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All that being said, I actually think this game is going to be a lot more popular than people realize.

I'm not just saying this either. I never felt this way about Pantheon. I enjoyed the early game experience of Pantheon when it first launched, but it was really rough, and needed a lot of work. Even though it's been nearly a year since that time, I tried logging into Pantheon and it doesn't hit the same. When my friends asked me if they should buy it when I got last year, I told them no, that I didn't think they would enjoy it, and that the game also needs a lot of work before it would even be ready for general consumption.

MnM on the other hand is completely different, I 100% believe that most of my friends could hop into the game right now and play it and have fun.

Also for those of you who haven't tried MnM yet, the lack of maps isn't as big of a deal as you would think it is. The zones are massive, yes, but they have huge landmarks you can see from a long distance that really help you figure out which way to go. For instance, Night Harbor, which is basically Freeport, can be seen from miles away, so even if you do manage to get lost in the desert, you can almost always find your way home, or at least tell which direction you're heading. The elven forest is very similar. You can look up and see the glow of the elven structures high in the sky from anywhere in the zone. Even in the neighboring zone, Keepers Bight, you can glance towards the forest and get a pretty good idea where the Elven City is because you can see the glowing lights in the dark forest from the coast line where the boat docks are.

I have to assume it was intentional, but the game is relatively navigable even without a map.

[shovelquest]

I hope Asmongold gets really into it.

[Nickelback8469]

Originally Posted by Ekco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unpolished EQ clone is basically being kind, MnM people are giving Star Citizen community a run for their money in the cult dept. was the same energy with Pantheon people back when people still could claim that was vaporware with a straight face

that harbor starting zone is the biggest cluster fuck in the history of video games

real talk.

The biggest difference that gives me hope for M&M right now is that they're not trying to sell Early Access or really taking any money from the public. Pantheon had a lot of hype but the red flags were there with how they were trying to milk their community by selling promises for a finished product in the future.