Questioning GM Decisions

[Nineran]

Here Here to the OP, well said.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not complaining and it's not drama. Many of us feel like they dropped the ball when they could have done far more, and we, the non-hacking playerbase, have been handed the short end of the stick considering how lenient the punishments were in comparison to those that have been dished out before and even what the rules themselves state. Throw in some of the other recent decisions, or lack thereof, and you've got a boiling pot that's spilling over. The feud between the devs certainly didn't help, but it's also something that's not new to P99 (it's happened before and this one has gone on for the better part of a year)

This last decision, the one regarding the cheaters, was so bad that I called it quits.

As I said, the staff will make mistakes just as the community will -- we're all human. Sometimes the mistakes are the players' not abiding by the rules (an extreme would be using a third-party program) and sometimes the staff's mistake is not enforcing the rules (the extreme of playing favorites or not banning third-party program-using players).

It's their decision and it's their server. Fine. That's something we all knew going in. But when creating p99 the staff felt there were some cardinal sins that simply were unforgivable -- the rules. But when joining p99, I too felt there were some things that the were unforgivable -- hence rules. Both the staff and the players were expected to abide by them. My interpretation and their interpretation meshed and I joined this server. Had I known how things would go down since then I wouldn't have joined over a year ago. I myself have wavered and I've perhaps broken a dumb rule here and there (I admit I've RnF'd a bit in GC =P and I've trained my guild once or twice. It's hard pulling fear as a wizard), but I never committed a cardinal sin, because had I done it I'd expect to be shown the door. The staff too has made some silly decisions over that time, but I feel they didn't live up to their end of the bargain.

Nothing emotional, no sissy shit. I walked away from the game and am offering to walk away from the forums if they feel they're not changing their minds on that single, and admittedly rather important, decision.

As for HBB: it sort of transcends the forum rules at this point, dude. Do you think me telling nilb0g that i quit in a private message because they made this decision would even warrant a response at all? At least he's reading it, and you know what? I'm glad everyone else is as well.

These issues have a method to getting dealt with, and you along with others in your group are using alternative means which are not worth the ends to settle them. Stop going around saying negative things about the server which may or may not be true (I'm not arguing the veracity of your claims) in a way which is detrimental to p99. Do it using the outlined method or go away. You're driving away new and old players, many of which are innocent of the cheating which you despise so much.

I didn't cheat, why try to ruin my fun?

The above statement can be made by the entire server's population minus 365 minus your group of rabble-rousers.

[Ennoia]

Misdirection: It's what's for dinner.

The fact of the matter is the rules are CLEARLY stated that MQ2 use will result in an immediate and irrevocable ban, yet it was only a suspension.

Ban Xzerion. Ban Perun. LONG LIVE UTHGAARD!!!

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These issues have a method to getting dealt with, and you along with others in your group are using alternative means which are not worth the ends to settle them. Stop going around saying negative things about the server which may or may not be true (I'm not arguing the veracity of your claims) in a way which is detrimental to p99. Do it using the outlined method or go away. You're driving away new and old players, many of which are innocent of the cheating which you despise so much.

I didn't cheat, why try to ruin my fun?

The above statement can be made by the entire server's population minus 365 minus your group of rabble-rousers.

I'm not trying to ruin your fun, I'm hoping that there's a glimmer of hope left in mine. I'm trying to extend the length of time you'll have fun here. You make it sound as my motives are selfish. Really? And rabble-rousing would have been me going all RnF up in this bitch; quite clearly i'm not.

Furthermore, sending the GMs a PM and telling them that I quit because 'you guys dun' fucked up', or even being eloquent and reasonable about it doesn't make any sense and I can almost guarantee you there'd no be action. I actually believe Nilb0g when he says he doesn't care if there's 2 or 2,000 players online. From what I've gathered I'm not too sure I can say that about any of the other members of the staff

[mitic]

you just dont ban a good portion of your active "customers", at least not at the first time they got caught

we are talking here about threehundretsixtyfive accounts ffs

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not trying to ruin your fun, I'm hoping that there's a glimmer of hope left in mine. I'm trying to extend the length of time you'll have fun here. You make it sound as my motives are selfish. Really? And rabble-rousing would have been me going all RnF up in this bitch; quite clearly i'm not.

My fun does not rest on whether or not XYZ players get banned or not. It does not rest on a server reset. It does not rest on whether or not it is made public that ABC players disagree with staff for whatever reasons.

The GM's have made their decision. You stating that it is not final yet does not make it not final. Your options are to deal with their decision, escalate your grievance with the decision in the approved manner, or leave. It's really that simple.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Furthermore, sending the GMs a PM and telling them that I quit because 'you guys dun' fucked up', or even being eloquent and reasonable about it doesn't make any sense and I can almost guarantee you there'd no be action. I actually believe Nilb0g when he says he doesn't care if there's 2 or 2,000 players online. From what I've gathered I'm not too sure I can say that about any of the other members of the staff

If you use the approved method to bring your grievance regarding the decision and are not satisfied with the outcome, I would say maybe starting a signature-stye petition involving some number of players. If that does not bring you the outcome you want, figure some other way within the rules to raise your complaints. If that doesn't work, you should either learn to live with it or leave.

[citizen1080]

I am not usually one to join the "rabble rabble rabble" crowd..and I may have taken this out of context. But...

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't really the thread to dispute past actions. Please keep on the topic: a group of people acting in a manner which is detrimental to the server. There are plenty of other threads in which to discuss other things, and you also have the option of starting a new thread. Thank you.

Your OP states that you feel the player base should not talk about the recent issues with "hackers, shady staff practices etc" or question GM decisions due to the potential of scaring away new players. Which is a valid concern.

However, according to you the topic of the thread is a group of people acting in a manner which is detrimental to the server.

In my opinion 365 accounts caught hacking is far more detrimental to the server than people talking about it. And that is all they are doing, is talking. As far as I can tell the user base has not sent an ultimatum to Nilbog stating that he has to ban every cheater on the server or they will boycott it.

For one he would not care as he has said many previous times and two, it is not our place to demand anything. It is his sandbox, who are we to demand he removes the cat shit in it.

However I still feel we should be able to talk about it. If a new player actual takes the time to read some of the posts he will see 99% of the drama and issues on the server are located in a very small portion of the player base and zones..namely raid areas. Yes people used the hack suite in normal zones and that is detrimental to all our playing. But, not enough to avoid the server entirely. This is by far the best thing out there for Classic EQ cheaters or no. And while the response to the cheaters was too little in many of our opinions that does not change the fact that there was a response and it was in the right direction.

Censoring free speech here will just lead to a private forum somewhere else where people can speak their minds without fear of big brother censoring their threads. And that in its self will harm this server than any thread posted here.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My fun does not rest on whether or not XYZ players get banned or not. It does not rest on a server reset. It does not rest on whether or not it is made public that ABC players disagree with staff for whatever reasons.

The GM's have made their decision. You stating that it is not final yet does not make it not final. Your options are to deal with their decision, escalate your grievance with the decision in the approved manner, or leave. It's really that simple.

If you use the approved method to bring your grievance regarding the decision and are not satisfied with the outcome, I would say maybe starting a signature-stye petition. If that does not bring you the outcome you want, figure some other way within the rules to raise your complaints. If that doesn't work, you should either learn to live with it or leave.

I've stated the question in GC threads before and they haven't responded and I'll do it again + i'll even PM him about it in case they didn't read it. That cool? So let's debunk your crap once more.

Are you guys currently considering withdrawing the current punishment in favor of something more harsh with respect to the 365 accounts that were caught cheating? A simple yes or no is enough for me.

My fun doesn't depend on people getting banned, but I expect certain rules to be followed -- from both parties. Not abiding by those rules doesn't mean i won't have fun, in fact it means that I'll willingly leave.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Ennoia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact of the matter is the rules are CLEARLY stated that MQ2 use will result in an immediate and irrevocable ban, yet it was only a suspension.

You have a valid point Ennoia, and I'm not trying to argue that. I'm saying that the method which a certain group of people have decided on employing is probably doing more harm than good. What good can come of you typing "ban this or that" with every post you make? Will it bring Uthgaard back? Probably not. It's also against the rules.

[Tamiah2011]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've noticed that there are quite a few threads going around in several forums which openly question the GM decision regarding the recent suite of 3rd party program users. This, I believe, affects the server's health as a whole, hence my posting in Server Chat. My main concern is that these kinds of posts will affect the way a new player sees this community negatively, turning them away from Project 1999 because of supposed cheating or corruption when such cheating has been summarily dealt with and the corruption has been deemed not to exist. Even if these things were in question, they would be indicative of the morals and actions of a few individuals rather than the server as a whole.

Why aren't these issues being dealt with in the proper manner, outlined by the people who run this server?

Why aren't the individuals responsible for various slanders and the obvious intent of mayhem against the population of Project 1999 being dealt with?

In the Rants, Flames, and NSFW forum there is a thread titled "GM Decisions." In that thread, I believe the official policy is:

and

and

I'm just a little curious as to why posts containing questions regarding GM Decisions on this particular issue are allowed to continue unmolested. I'm especially curious in this matter as I have been unable to question GM Decisions publically in the past, and I'm sure many others have been so unable as well.

Rogean goes on to state:

If this is the correct way to request oversight regarding a GM Decision, why aren't people being directed to do so rather than continue to spam the various forums about it?

Is the freedom of people to speak their mind - in a manner which has been prohibited, and when the proper manner has been outlined - worth the negative impact this campaign is probably having on this community?

No. People have said their piece and more. They have rattled their cages and then some. Nobody benefits from allowing this to continue, no matter what your stance is. I suggest that further posts calling into question the decisions of the GM Staff be deleted or archived separately, and that these posters be given instructions to raise grievances in the proper manner. I further suggest that repercussions for further violations of the rules be detailed and enforced. Everyone sees why this situation is different, but the rules of the forums shouldn't be set aside because a group of people want to raise questions and cause havoc about how the rules of the game are being enforced.

Let me get this right, you want GM enforce how player talk on forums but not enforce the rules on game server? Most the player pissed because Rogean has NOT enforced the rules he made on server...Grow a brain