ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Dalven]

A few days late on checking this thread, but anyway.

Also the prologue of 5, its about that wildling that can do it too, six skins or something like that. He died, yet was able to warg into one of his animals to escape death. I believe this was foreshadowing that another character would do the same thing (ie: Jon). Melisandre knows this is going to happen to Jon as she mentions hes surrounded by knives in the dark, or in the shadows, and then also tells him to keep Ghost close. As far as the smoking wounds, I think that’s because of how cold it is. Blood is warm enough for steam. But fun fact, Azor Azai is born amongst salt and smoke. Jon would be reborn as Azor Azai, I just havent worked in the salt. But I think light bringer is the nights watch, and I think the nights watch vows changed at somepoint. The Vows sam says to open the door under the wall are not the same vows they say to join the nights watch. Sounds like junk was added as its not required to open the magic door.

Yeah I totally agree with all of this. I hadn't noticed Sam's vows were different from before. What is interesting in Melisandre's chapter where she's trying to summon up the vision of Azor Ahai and keeps seeing Jon. Something still seems strange to me about all of his last chapter - it seemed totally out of character and against several books worth of angst about his vows for Jon to suddenly disregard his them and go sort out a wildling mob to take to Winterfell. Even if it is for who he believes is Arya.

Benjen I believe was already at the wall, so he wouldn’t know.

I'm not convinced this is the case - the war occurred not long after the tourney at Harrenhall as I believe Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together shortly after the tourney and we know Benjen was at that tourney (the "wolf pup" in Meera's story). He would have been the 'Stark in Winterfell' during the time of the rebellion and there upon Ned's return. Although I may be wrong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed, my thoughts exactly. Hopefully Barriston and her will cross paths; that would be the fastest way to confirm she is in fact Ashera Dayne. Did the starks really dishonor her? If I remember correct, she was infatuated with Ned Stark, and Ned with her. But Ned was bound by duty to marry Cat after his brother died. What did Ashera do at the tourney? Assuming this was the tourney that Rhaegar won and named Lyanna the queen of beauty as opposed to his Martell wife. I don’t recall Ashera being dishonored.

In Barriston's chapter 'The Kingbreaker' her is thinking about Ashara and notes

But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonoured her(...) If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty might she have looked to me instead of Stark?

Ashara has had a bastard stillbirth by a Stark (which incidentally rules her out for being a candidate for Jon's mother), we get no hint of this from Ned's POV and Barriston talks of him with respect in an earlier chapter. Brandon is also referred to as the 'wild wolf' and is noted to be hot headed and emotional which leaves me to suspect he is the Stark Barriston refers to. Tyrion also notes Septa Lemore bears the marks of childbirth when she bathes in one of his chapters.

You just blew my mind. I have no idea why Varys apparently wants the Targaryens in power. Definitely going to put in more time looking up the details surrounding the mummers dragon, one of the 3 things that will betray Dany. I never read the dunk and egg stories, but my buddy has and owns the stories. Theres definitely something sketchy about aegon. I really like the Blackfyre angle.

I don't think he is Illyrio's son, although I am convinced his parentage is Blackfyre. Dunk and Egg stories are totally worth checking out though.

[Dalven]

do u have any opinions on the two horns? (one for the wall (ice), and one for dragons (fire)), hence "A Song of Ice and Fire"

Sam has the ice horn, Victarian has the fire horn.

Victarion is a bad ass. i'm thinking him and Dany will arrange some kind of deal where Victarion lets Dany use his ships to get to Westeros and in exchange Dany will maybe help him remove Euron so that Victarion may sit the throne on Pyke?

Victarion is definitely a bad ass - all this mad stuff with his black smoking hand and his involvement with the red priest have made him infinitely more interesting. I agree that his ships will be involved with getting Dany to Westeros although I think Euron is to subtle to believe that Victarion will just do his bidding and will guess that he will try to take Dany for himself. Euron definitely has some double cross in the works. It'll be interesting to see how Victarion uses the horn to control the dragons, or whether Dany eventually gets a hold of it.

Sam's horn will apparently bring down the wall if used but is in Oldtown with him. I believe the wall is destined to fall, as the Others need this to happen to threaten the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, so it will be used at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince
also i dont think the horn sam has is the ice horn
i'd bet both my lungs against one of your kidneys that youre wrong. the fake ice horn was destroyed with the fake mance in the very real fire. theres a reason Sam took that horn to the citadel, and theres a reason Jaqan H'agar killed pate, and has been lingering around Sam. the horn is broken remember, but the Maesters have magic again cause there are dragons in the world again, therefore the horn can be repaired.

It is 100% the horn. The other mysterious thing about the horn is why it was found with a bunch of obsidian arrow heads and wrapped in a black cloak on the Fist of the First Men. Jaqen's presence in Oldtown is intriguing, makes you wonder what the Faceless Men's stake is and how that'll impact Arya.

got any opinions on anything involving Harrold Harding (harold the heir), Sansa Stark, Baelish, the queen of thorns? i think Baelish and that thorny tyrell bitch are up to something, i think Joffrey was only the first part of their plan. i believe they intend to divide westeros, the South to the Tyrells, and the north to Baelish, via the marriage of Sansa Stark, and the last male kin of the Arryn blood line, Harold.

Who know's what Baelish's other motives are other than eventual power and an infatuation with Sansa. I don't think he is in with the Queen of Thorns as they are in deep with the Lannisters now. Perhaps he's deliberately played the Tyrrels as well as he's played the Lannisters by tying them into each other with marriage and ensuring mutual downfall. Sansa is definitely becoming smarter in A Feast for Crows, it'll be interesting to see if she lets Littlefinger kill Robert Arryn with that sweetmilk.

touche. i will admit, the first 4 books i read a very long time ago, theres gonna be some details i apparently forgot. While he doesnt strike me as a faceless man, i won't rule it. i'll even put on my nerd badge and investigate this because u got me curious

Certainly evidence that Varys is a Faceless Man but even if he's acquired the skills I'm not convinced he is one, or at least not anymore. I'm not sure what the Faceless Men's interest in the fate of Westeros would be.

people have sailed near valyria. personally i think that when we actually land and explore the ruins we will find the long lost lannister valaryian steel sword that was lost. but not much more than that. GRRM already said no new PoV characters for 6 and 7. the only ones in a position to explore it are Tyrion and Mormont, or Victarion and Dany. ALSO, i personally wanna see Assai before the busted ruins of old valyria.

I also believe that we will get to see Valyria, or at least hear detail from someone who has been there. A lot of mentions have been made about Tyrion's uncle Gerion over the course of the books - I think we'll at least find out what happened to him.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Prince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hope he gets eaten by dargon

just confirmed Aeron Greyjoy as a PoV character in book 6

[Sirken]

A few days late on checking this thread, but anyway.

Yeah I totally agree with all of this. I hadn't noticed Sam's vows were different from before. What is interesting in Melisandre's chapter where she's trying to summon up the vision of Azor Ahai and keeps seeing Jon. Something still seems strange to me about all of his last chapter - it seemed totally out of character and against several books worth of angst about his vows for Jon to suddenly disregard his them and go sort out a wildling mob to take to Winterfell. Even if it is for who he believes is Arya.

i 100% agree, i constantly mock Jon because of the dumb choices hes made because "hes a bastard, and a sworn man of the nights watch, whom swore his vows" etc etc. it almost makes me feel that was not Jon (ie: when "mance" gets burned in the fire). Jon is to important to the story to actually be dead. we havent even confirmed via GRRM who his parents are.

I'm not convinced this is the case - the war occurred not long after the tourney at Harrenhall as I believe Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together shortly after the tourney and we know Benjen was at that tourney (the "wolf pup" in Meera's story). He would have been the 'Stark in Winterfell' during the time of the rebellion and there upon Ned's return. Although I may be wrong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

good call, we do know benjen is there for the tourny, and we know he was the stark in winterfell during roberts rebellion, but then all we are told is:

"Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell. He joined the Night's Watch shortly after for reasons unknown."

Ashara has had a bastard stillbirth by a Stark (which incidentally rules her out for being a candidate for Jon's mother), we get no hint of this from Ned's POV and Barriston talks of him with respect in an earlier chapter. Brandon is also referred to as the 'wild wolf' and is noted to be hot headed and emotional which leaves me to suspect he is the Stark Barriston refers to. Tyrion also notes Septa Lemore bears the marks of childbirth when she bathes in one of his chapters.

we also know Brandon did not initially want to marry Cat, but for some reason i always thought Ned and Ashera had a fling, it fits as the easy answer for jon's parents to lazy readers. still 100% convinced that Septa Lamore = Ashera, but waiting on Barriston to confirm.

I don't think he is Illyrio's son, although I am convinced his parentage is Blackfyre. Dunk and Egg stories are totally worth checking out though.

ill check these out. Aegon is still a huge mystery to me as i dont totally believe everything we've been told about him. but that being said, im starting to really think Aegon is indeed Rhaegar's kid.

[Sirken]

Victarion is definitely a bad ass - all this mad stuff with his black smoking hand and his involvement with the red priest have made him infinitely more interesting. I agree that his ships will be involved with getting Dany to Westeros although I think Euron is to subtle to believe that Victarion will just do his bidding and will guess that he will try to take Dany for himself. Euron definitely has some double cross in the works. It'll be interesting to see how Victarion uses the horn to control the dragons, or whether Dany eventually gets a hold of it.

good call on Euron. as much as i dont like him, he is smart. and hes gotta be smart enough to have an insurance policy against Victarion. will surely be interesting to see this play out.

Sam's horn will apparently bring down the wall if used but is in Oldtown with him. I believe the wall is destined to fall, as the Others need this to happen to threaten the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, so it will be used at some point.

do we know for certain that the horn of winter brings down the wall? for some reason i always figured it was used to raising some sleeping beast or beasts. we have this quote:

"The Horn of Winter, also known as the Horn of Joramun, is a legendary horn with magical properties. It was supposedly blown by Joramun, a wildling King-Beyond-the-Wall. When he blew it, he woke the giants from the earth."

i feel it was the wildings who added the bit about it bringing down the wall. but i could be easily wrong. the only problem with it being the Horn of Joramun(winter) is that the Horn of Winter is described as being 8 ft long. but maybe the stories had been embellished over the years?

Who know's what Baelish's other motives are other than eventual power and an infatuation with Sansa. I don't think he is in with the Queen of Thorns as they are in deep with the Lannisters now. Perhaps he's deliberately played the Tyrrels as well as he's played the Lannisters by tying them into each other with marriage and ensuring mutual downfall. Sansa is definitely becoming smarter in A Feast for Crows, it'll be interesting to see if she lets Littlefinger kill Robert Arryn with that sweetmilk.

i think when the Tyrells learn it was Cersei that had Magarey locked up, that lil experiment will be over. and it is nice to see sansa finally learn something, but at this point if she goes against Baelish, shes pretty fucked. who else would help her? i love Baelish.

Certainly evidence that Varys is a Faceless Man but even if he's acquired the skills I'm not convinced he is one, or at least not anymore. I'm not sure what the Faceless Men's interest in the fate of Westeros would be.

ive decided there's no way Varys is a faceless man. Ned recognized Varys, master of guise? sure. but hes not changing faces or Ned would not have recognized him in the dungeon.

I also believe that we will get to see Valyria, or at least hear detail from someone who has been there. A lot of mentions have been made about Tyrion's uncle Gerion over the course of the books - I think we'll at least find out what happened to him.

i agree with the first part for sure. and i would love to learn what happened to Gerion as well as the lannister valaryian steel sword that vanished with him, but dunno if we'll get that far.

also, is anyone else pissed off about what happened to Ice? the sword that had been in the stark family over 400 years [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sirken]

also, "The Lands of Ice and Fire" is out. finally seen all the correct versions of the maps. the ones on the internet arent far off, they are just missing a bunch between Qarth and Assai

[India]

I finally just started Book 5 Part 1 so had to skip all the spoilers above
That said I can't wait to finish so I can read back on what you guys are posting and check out what subtleties I may have missed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Slave]

R+L=J because Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and everything follows very clearly from there.

Varys is a Targaryen loyalist because he is in fact a wizard and wants magic to grow stronger. He knows for a fact it exists and has been obsessed with it since he saw a demon summoned to the sacrifice of his manhood. It accounts for all his strange talents and motives. Either that, or he could be a Targaryen himself. His similar name, the fact he shaves his head (like Egg, who did it to disguise himself), there are clues.

Tyrion is probably a Targaryen and one of the heads of the dragon. Tywin's hatred, dragon dreams, his dwarfism, Barristan's tale, the evidence is there. The mummer's dragon is Aegon.

The Hound was clearly the gravedigger and will likely fight unGregor for the Faith. To what conclusion is anyone's guess. We still have about ZERO idea what is going on with Margaery. Cersei is showing signs of connivance once more, as well... and we know that Jaime the Valonquar will kill her, in his increasingly moralistic defense of the Kingdom.

We know for a fact that Bloodraven is Brynden Rivers.

Lightbringer is probably the dragons, making Dany Azor Ahai, and Drogo Nissa Nissa. :P

Osha took Rickon to Skagos, where Manderly sent Davos.

You know that Oberyn actually killed Tywin Lannister? He was in the slow process of dying when Tyrion shot him.

Jon is almost definitely alive, or will be reborn. I am not convinced the assassination attempt was successful. There were lots of free folk, Jon loyalists, and even an angry giant nearby with reason to protect Jon. "He never felt" the rest of the blows. Maybe because they never landed... but he cannot meet his end there, because his is the song of ice and fire. He is Targaryen + Stark, literally ice and fire.

In any case, Jon is not needed to defeat the Boltons. Stannis is there, several Umbers are there, Asha Greyjoy is there, Theon is there; Roose just sent the Manderleys and Ramsay's men into the snow. All told it is enough to put paid to the Boltons for good.

[Slave]

Euron Greyjoy hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon. The dwarf witch saw it.

[Slave]

The Wall must certainly fall, for plot alone, or else the realm is never in any danger.