religion

[Glenzig]

I totally messed everyone's quotes up with my post.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're not ascribing any characteristics to the tomato. You're simply stating a fact. Stating that someone acts without moral reason would be stating a fact. When you say someone is acting like an animal, you are illustrating their actions by comparing them to something easily recognizable. An animal. Now if animals were inherently empathetic and moral, this illustration would fall flat. But everyone knew what you were saying. Everyone recognizes that animals act without moral compass.

Um... a tomato is a fruit.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is where you and I disagree. We can definitely find traits like empathy, compassion, etc. in the animal kingdom but I wouldnt call that morality. Those are only traits we label as moral. Morality is a concept and concepts are formed by abstract thought. If an animal isnt capable of thinking abstractly then it cannot possess a morality. It can have traits that are moral to a morality possessing being like humans but cannot itself have morality.

How do you know where to draw the line though?

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Um... a tomato is a fruit.

Or in this case a straw man.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or in this case a straw man.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're saying that the tomato is acting like a vegetable?

[leewong]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do you know where to draw the line though?

Not sure what you mean by draw the line here. Abstract thought and empathy I suppose. You cannot have morality without those two essential ingredients. I am not arguing no other animal is incapable of abstract thought and empathy. It wouldnt surprise me if apes and chimpanzees could. If they can then I would say they possess a morality.

An ant ,on the other hand, has no possible way to think abstractly. While it may show traits that we would call moral (raising and tending to their young) they dont possess morality only instincts like self-preservation, etc.

Maybe that answers your question...

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're saying that the tomato is acting like a vegetable?

It sure as hell tastes like one. Much like the aforementioned Muslims are acting savage and animalistic.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure what you mean by draw the line here. Abstract thought and empathy I suppose. You cannot have morality without those two essential ingredients. I am not arguing no other animal is incapable of abstract thought and empathy. It wouldnt surprise me if apes and chimpanzees could. If they can then I would say they possess a morality.

An ant ,on the other hand, has no possible way to think abstractly. While it may show traits that we would call moral (raising and tending to their young) they dont possess morality only instincts like self-preservation, etc.

Maybe that answers your question...

Your earlier post seemed to imply that the entire animal kingdom was incapable of possessing morality. That's why I asked.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sure as hell tastes like one. Much like the aforementioned Muslims are acting savage and animalistic.

But we inherited our empathy and morality from the animal kingdom. We are just higher animals. Why would that be an illustrative way of describing someone lacking morality? If empathy and morality are readily observable in the animal kingdom, then why would acting animalistic be a bad thing?