religion

[leewong]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure what you mean by draw the line here. Abstract thought and empathy I suppose. You cannot have morality without those two essential ingredients. I am not arguing no other animal is incapable of abstract thought and empathy. It wouldnt surprise me if apes and chimpanzees could. If they can then I would say they possess a morality.

An ant ,on the other hand, has no possible way to think abstractly. While it may show traits that we would call moral (raising and tending to their young) they dont possess morality only instincts like self-preservation, etc.

Maybe that answers your question...

I would like to add something to the requirements for morality...an instinct for self-preservation.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But we inherited our empathy and morality from the animal kingdom. We are just higher animals. Why would that be an illustrative way of describing someone lacking morality? If empathy and morality are readily observable in the animal kingdom, then why would acting animalistic be a bad thing?

Ask the ones who came up with the phrase dude. I'm not a fucking philosopher. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where specifically do you draw the line at what constitutes "morality" then?

This is actually a good question which I don't think we have a solid answer to yet. I think as science progresses we will start to draw back the curtain on the subject and be able to definitively say at what point the primate brain began to develop emotional empathy and consistently apply it to behavior toward other sentient creatures.

[leewong]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ask the ones who came up with the phrase dude. I'm not a fucking philosopher. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whatever you do dont say any phrases like, "paint the town red" or "drink like a fish" around him. He doesnt take his Bible literally but he will take your words.

[RobotElvis]

[QUOTE=leewong;1621460]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is where you and I disagree. We can definitely find traits like empathy, compassion, etc. in the animal kingdom but I wouldnt call that morality. Those are only traits we label as moral. Morality is a concept and concepts are formed by abstract thought. If an animal isnt capable of thinking abstractly then it cannot possess a morality. It can have traits that are moral to a morality possessing being like humans but cannot itself have morality.

But if animals can show moral traits, which are nothing more than instinct, why did humans evolve beyond animals in their morals? You say because of abstract thought, I agree with you.

But abstract thought is not a biological quality, it is a quality of the mind which is not physical.

This is a gap that cannot be bridged by biological Darwinian evolutionary models.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is actually a good question which I don't think we have a solid answer to yet. I think as science progresses we will start to draw back the curtain on the subject and be able to definitively say at what point the primate brain began to develop emotional empathy and consistently apply it to behavior toward other sentient creatures.

Or it is easily explained by saying that humans are special creatures that did not evolve from animals, and are inherently morally superior to any physical creation. As I have thus far proved.

[paulgiamatti]

Well, there you have it folks. Just because science doesn't have an answer to every question about our species yet, we were clearly supernaturally conceived by an omnipotent creator that also happened to create the entire universe.

Perfectly logical conclusion.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But if animals can show moral traits, which are nothing more than instinct, why did humans evolve beyond animals in their morals? You say because of abstract thought, I agree with you.

But abstract thought is not a biological quality, it is a quality of the mind which is not physical.

This is a gap that cannot be bridged by biological Darwinian evolutionary models.

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or it is easily explained by saying that humans are special creatures that did not evolve from animals, and are inherently morally superior to any physical creation. As I have thus far proved.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[leewong]

[QUOTE=RobotElvis;1621489]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But if animals can show moral traits, which are nothing more than instinct, why did humans evolve beyond animals in their morals? You say because of abstract thought, I agree with you.

But abstract thought is not a biological quality, it is a quality of the mind which is not physical.

This is a gap that cannot be bridged by biological Darwinian evolutionary models.

The mind is the big grey lump of matter inside your skull. It is a physical object. There is no such thing as a mind separate from a brain. You cannot simply claim the mind exists outside of a physical body and expect everyone to swallow it. Show us all some tangible evidence that is accepted by the broader scientific community.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whatever you do dont say any phrases like, "paint the town red" or "drink like a fish" around him. He doesnt take his Bible literally but he will take your words.

Ummmm. Don't know if you have a learning disability or not but those things Are as analogous to a situation as the phrase "acting like animals". Here let me break it down for you.

"James drinks like a fish"
Fish live in water so it is a hyperbole to say that he drinks a lot, because fish live in water you get it. If they didn't live in water it would mean nothing.

"James went to paint the town red tonight"
This means he will go to the point if reckless abandon, as if so much blood will be spilled from his drunken brawls the town will be red from blood, because blood is red get it?
If blood was not red it would mean nothing.

"James acts like an animal when he drinks"
He does not act as the same person drunk as he does sober. It's as if he is not human anymore, because he does not display human morality but the morality of an animal, animals aren't human get it?
If animals acted like humans then it would mean nothing.

I hope this lesson in colloquial expressions has helped you.