Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Keep digging Troxx lol. I am just using your own data.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I was also willing to provide data, and I did. Not only that, but my data is superior because it can be cross referenced. You can look at the video and compare the data being generated to the logs, to make sure I didn't change anything. The problem is you are basically trying to argue that because I didn't provide the evidence in the exact manner Troxx asked for, it is not valid. You have ZERO evidence to back up this claim.

We have to take all of Troxx's claims on faith. We have to assume his parses are in the location he claims, we have to assume his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30% and not just the puller, etc. I am not sure why I am the bad guy here. I provided better, more concrete evidence than he did lol. He needs to prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%.

The only concession here is from Troxx, because he admitted multiple times his data is incorrect, and still refuses to provide "correct" data. If that is true, he literally has no data.

The actual data so far:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[Troxx]

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx continues to be mad[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data so far:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[Chortles Snortles]

so shm not good pick for 4 man caster group
got it

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Chortles Snortles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so shm not good pick for 4 man caster group
got it

OP picked Shaman over Mage. Got it.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is you are basically trying to argue that because I didn't provide the evidence in the exact manner Troxx asked for, it is not valid. You have ZERO evidence to back up this claim.

I did not say that the "evidence" you provided is not valid, what I ACTUALLY said is that you have opted out of the direct comparison Troxx was interested in (and repeatedly asked you to participate in), which is a fact. You may be upset about it, it doesn't change the facts. You may also post whatever you wish, it will not change the facts.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We have to take all of Troxx's claims on faith. We have to assume his parses are in the location he claims, we have to assume his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30% and not just the puller, etc. I am not sure why I am the bad guy here. I provided better, more concrete evidence than he did lol. He needs to prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%.

I did not call you a bad guy. The fact is you could do what Troxx did and as he (and others) repeatedly requested you to do, but for whatever reason you won't, therefore "The problem is you are basically" conceding. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only concession here is from Troxx, because he admitted multiple times his data is incorrect, and still refuses to provide "correct" data. If that is true, he literally has no data.
The actual data so far:

Not only could you simply participate if you were not opting to concede by refusing to provide data in the format Troxx did, let's be clear that Troxx did not "admit his data is incorrect"; exactly what he HAS stated is visible on his post history in this thread, and equally visible are your posts including and thus exposing multiple misunderstandings/misrepresentations, pointless hypotheticals and raw math which (as has been pointed out to you by many others in this thread) does not translate into reality. Lastly, just as visible are the multiple replies to your posts, which as noted many times, you continue to either misunderstand or misinterpret, or move goalposts. I present the entirety of this thread as my evidence, and you may choose to post whatever you wish, it won't change any of these facts.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP picked Shaman over Mage. Got it.

OP Picked Shaman over CLERIC. I present the above Quote as further evidence of you misunderstanding and/or misconstruing. Are you arguing from bad faith?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

OP didn't pick a Mage at all, which means the pro-Mage side lost[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Utility (Necromancer) won over a bit more DPS. It's the same reason you would pick a Shaman. A bit of DPS doesn't generally matter much.

I am not sure why you are taking their side cyxthryth. Since you came in hot with some weird take on an older thread, I can only assume you just have a grudge against me.

Just because I didn't provide evidence in the asked for manner, doesn't make it invalid, or lesser than Troxx's. As I said before, my data is actually provable, and his isn't. That makes it superior. I am not saying he is lying. The problem is his own data backs up my points, and his only excuse for that is "my parser isn't working correctly, it either bugged out or undervalued DPS". It is up to him to prove that his parser is indeed lowering his MAGE's DPS by 30%, and not just the puller.

I have not move goalposts at all. We are comparing DPS. I got the data for that. The only goalpost moving being done are the people claiming that data which isn't gathered in Troxx's manner is invalid. That is the semantic game being played because his data is proving my points.

For people interested in the topic at hand, the real data so far:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP didn't pick a Mage at all, which means the pro-Mage side lost[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP very obviously chose classes based on preferences or other factors and veered away from what any of us would consider the best min/max choice. The fact that you're actually trying to spin this as support for your stupid bullshit is astounding.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP very obviously chose classes based on preferences or other factors and veered away from what any of us would consider the best min/max choice. The fact that you're actually trying to spin this as support for your stupid bullshit is astounding.

Someone's mad the pro Mage team lost. Utility won out over DPS, which is why Necro/Shaman were preferred. It matches my arguments, while disproves yours.

The current data, for people interested:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.