Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Kevris]

I feel that a situation in which an attacker, whom already has the advangate of surprise, is guaranteed he's fighting a lower-level player, via the con system, combined with experience loss for those killed in PVP creates a rather nasty scenario.

Kill and be killed, sure, but I believe that that some of the systems in place at this time cater to -and even encourage- griefing rather than the fun EQ PVP I fondly remember for the low levels on TZ, circa 2000.

Curious, gentlemen, what is the behavior incented by including an experience loss for PVP deaths? What was the development team trying to get people to do, or not do, when this went in?

[xblade724]

I feel that a situation in which an attacker, whom already has the advangate of surprise, is guaranteed he's fighting a lower-level player, via the con system, combined with experience loss for those killed in PVP creates a rather nasty scenario.

Kill and be killed, sure, but I believe that that some of the systems in place at this time cater to -and even encourage- griefing rather than the fun EQ PVP I fondly remember for the low levels on TZ, circa 2000.

Curious, gentlemen, what is the behavior incented by including an experience loss for PVP deaths? What was the development team trying to get people to do, or not do, when this went in?

^ This

How about making it so that if you initiate the battle, you have a 30 minute timer for xp death from player. If defending yourself and you die, you don't lose xp. Defenders get a 5 minute bubble to not lose exp from players. Also a bubble preventing xp death for the one that died in a pvp battle? In other words, if you want to risk an engagement, you are risking your xp. Defenders lose their coin, morale, kill (if fighting a mob), have to return to corpse, re-mem spells, and run completely out of mana. That's already a huge hit.

Jesus if you want a more "hardcore" pvp, why not do the standard rallos zek ruleset where you lose an item that's restricted to droppable, non-weapon/bagged items? Not only is it more classic, but you have to realize that we all played EQ 15 years ago - we all are now 25+ or so and have jobs lives (well, more lives than when we were 13) etc. We simply don't have enough time to recover from so much pvp exp loss. Server pop is high now, but only just because it was recently released. I'm a good example of this -- I am enjoying it temporarily, but I can't see myself playing this for too much longer with this current system. Same with my friends.

Or perhaps tripled the exp gain on the server. This server is already NOT strict classic, so why not make it more enjoyable. People may shout "NO! Classic no triple exp!" but face it, you just want to catch up with your friends and enjoy the server -- why do you see 99% of everyone doing kelethin mail runs and that stupid misty quest to the guard for xp/money repeatedly? Because you gain exp faster than leveling! At least if the exp was tripled, you could play the game like normal instead of stupid ass mail quests and keep your battle skills up to par.

Whoever said risk of exp loss from PvE, PvE is more predictable and you can be more away of a mob that's going to gank you when low -__- bad comparison

[oldfish]

I would rather have everyone run naked like Rallos because of item loss with no xp loss and lots of pvp than this pvp lite system where people run after the first deaths. Youre never going to have long drawn out epic fights with xp loss. Not only that, the pop is going to take a nosedive real fast.

We did run out holocaust from guk... they just camped/plugged/ran out... epic pvp fights amirite.

If you really want someone to take a XP hit while PVPing, engage him when hes fighting in pve and let him die to a mob... just like classic.

On rallos, youd have a fun pvp session of a couple of hours, then go back to leveling up. This is just like Rallos, minus the fun pvp sessions part.

You can still decide who own camps without xp loss, one side is going to get tired of dying sooner or later. You just get to have fun pvping while doing that.

[xblade724]

I just read that people think item loss is worse. Why would that possibly be worse? Everyone has 2 sets of gear.. very strict rules on what you can loot. None of you ever tried rallos rules? You can't loot anything NO-DROP, in a container, a container itself, ANY weapon slots (including range/ammo) ...

Everyone just has 2 sets of gear -- their "just-to-be-safe/pvp gear", which is fun to collect over time (even the junk ones are fun just because it's no drop and fills a slot), and their "i'm a cocky bastard and i'm going to wear my shit" gear that you wear when hunting with guildies/friends etc

Old fish has it dead-on in his entire post. The part i'm picking is this:

If you really want someone to take a XP hit while PVPing, engage him when hes fighting in pve and let him die to a mob... just like classic.

^ This is true. You should have to decide between loot or xp death. If you really want him to xp death, you can do it, but you can't loot if that happens. Do you want utter revenge, or reward? Have to decide.

[Darwoth]

i am amazed at the amount of whining and retardation over the xp loss, you lose approximately 1 blue bubble for a pvp death. that is not "countless hours" it is about 15 minutes.

unless you plan to die a half dozen times a day i dont see the issue.

[Grento]

Originally Posted by Darwoth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i am amazed at the amount of whining and retardation over the xp loss, you lose approximately 1 blue bubble for a pvp death. that is not "countless hours" it is about 15 minutes.

unless you plan to die a half dozen times a day i dont see the issue.

Deleveling people was one of the many joys of PVP back in the day.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Darwoth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i am amazed at the amount of whining and retardation over the xp loss, you lose approximately 1 blue bubble for a pvp death. that is not "countless hours" it is about 15 minutes.

unless you plan to die a half dozen times a day i dont see the issue.

That will be the pop left in the end if xp loss isnt changed. People who didnt see the issue coming because they enjoy lolololexploss'ing people with zergs and will be left to wtf at the low pop.

Do we want people having fun pvping or not? Or do we cater to the niche crowd of people whose main fun and purpose in PVPing is griefing and not pvping in itself?

[Darwoth]

pretty sure the majority of the server likes things how they are, it is the same 5 or so crybabies always trying to shit the server up with retarded changes.

[socialist]

What happened to that debuff that prevented repeat xp loss? That's the only problem I can see. If you're dying a lot and you're alone, it's time to look for a guild so you can roll deep. It shouldn't be possible to bind-camp someone and have them lose xp again and again, or grief people on CR (you should be able to kill them but they shouldn't lose xp from it). Anything else is fair game and a risk that keeps people on their toes. If people quit because they lose 5% when dying in a legitimate fight, they probably weren't going to stick around on a PvP server anyway.

[oldfish]

Im hoping the devs see the light and get that people play a pvp server to pvp and that it would be way more fun and action oriented to remove xp loss while still letting people control camps.

But not gonna go swim upcurrent all day long on this, im just sure its a downward spiral to low pop if things stay like they are.