Rangers, decent tanks?

[Melias]

Originally Posted by mmiles8 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AC returns after the soft cap has been reached
45%: Warrior
33%: Paladin, ShadowKnight, Monk (Under weight cap)
23%: Cleric, Bard
17%: Ranger, Rogue, Shaman
6%: Druid, Enc, Mag, Nec, Wiz

Shields ignore AC cap regardless of class.

Coulda sworn bards and clerics had theirs raised to that level around TBS.

The ranger data is correct though.

Your softcaps should be correct too.

And for those asking what the hell the softcap and overcap return are:

The AC softcap is the point where worn AC stops giving it's full bonus, and instead gives only a % bonus as dictated by the overcap returns.

So a warrior with 350 worn AC (not displayed, worn is adding up all that AC on your gear) will actually only see 322.5 AC benefit.

[mmiles8]

Originally Posted by Melias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Coulda sworn bards and clerics had theirs raised to that level around TBS.

That may be the case.

[Melias]

Originally Posted by mmiles8 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That may be the case.

I'd need to do some searching, but I know most of that data is pre-SoF, but I honestly can't recall if bards/clerics got their boost before then or not. I think they did.

Go, go search powers, away!

Edit:

"The actual Post Softcap numbers based on the returns from the AoW calculations are (Quoted from Nodyin):

War: 34.38% (Keep in mind they have a natural DI advantage)

Knight: 32.25%

Bard/Monk/Cleric/Ranger: 30.3%

Beast/Rogue/Sham/Zerk: 25%

Druids/Silks: 20%"

That's all post-SoF, so I guess those are the cleric/bard numbers.

On Live rangers are pretty godlike, but yea, they languished for a long time without a real niche which made most groups avoid them since the Holy Trinity was king in people's minds.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Jael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I <3 My ranger! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

<3 your mana pool! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Melias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Coulda sworn bards and clerics had theirs raised to that level around TBS.

The ranger data is correct though.

Your softcaps should be correct too.

And for those asking what the hell the softcap and overcap return are:

The AC softcap is the point where worn AC stops giving it's full bonus, and instead gives only a % bonus as dictated by the overcap returns.

So a warrior with 350 worn AC (not displayed, worn is adding up all that AC on your gear) will actually only see 322.5 AC benefit.

Isn't that level based too? I would like to see a post about what the softcap is at each level. I think that when you increase defense skill, the softcap increases.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Melias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd need to do some searching, but I know most of that data is pre-SoF, but I honestly can't recall if bards/clerics got their boost before then or not. I think they did.

Go, go search powers, away!

Edit:

"The actual Post Softcap numbers based on the returns from the AoW calculations are (Quoted from Nodyin):

War: 34.38% (Keep in mind they have a natural DI advantage)

Knight: 32.25%

Bard/Monk/Cleric/Ranger: 30.3%

Beast/Rogue/Sham/Zerk: 25%

Druids/Silks: 20%"

That's all post-SoF, so I guess those are the cleric/bard numbers.

On Live rangers are pretty godlike, but yea, they languished for a long time without a real niche which made most groups avoid them since the Holy Trinity was king in people's minds.

That's what happens when too many mobs summon and rooting them doesn't help. Or when tracking doesn't help because everyone is staying in the same place. Or when you don't need to worry about them running away at below 20 percent health. Or when a ranger can't function as an interim tank like a pally or sk because mobs can kill you in one round. ETc. ETc. The content wasn't made with rangers in mind. And a lot of those abilities were given to other classes as AA's and disciplines. It just watered down our effectiveness, but groups still wanted us for our dps. This watering down happened to a lot of classes too. Probably has something to do with population issues. If there're less people, you can't have any single class be too specialized or desired.

Also you know, rangers have always been seen as gimp, but I think in classic we have more utility value because we're better able to work as interim tanks (when things go wrong) and can root (mobs don't summon) and so on. I'm probably missing the bigger picture, but I never said I was perfect.

Rangers not god, btw. John Lennon is god. And you -will- worship him or i will ranger gate you.

(i have an 85 ranger on live, btw. i can play him whenever i want. do you have that?)

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Melias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay, since I've absorbed far too much info regarding EverQuest over the years....

In the first few months of EverQuest rangers (did it carry over in to Kunark? I don't remember)) had the EXACT same AC softcap as warriors (this I'm unsure of, but the next part I am sure of), and the EXACT same overcap returns. What this meant that as long as a warrior and ranger had the same AC they would see the same tanking ability (if you discounted skill differences).

However, at some point before Kunark this got changed and rangers got their overcap return on AC dropped down to 1/3rd or more of the benefit that warriors see. It's at this point that the tired old "rangers suck," "realistic fetal position," etc. crap started popping up. Warriors were particularly vicious in this since they finally got their status as THE best tank solidified and a lot of rangers did die cause they tried tanking/soloing content that they used to be able to. But tank they still could.

Whether a ranger tanks is all about your willingness to let him. They've solidly been the 4th tank of EverQuest it's entire history with only monks ever really challenging that.

So stop projecting the same tired old jokes onto the rangers around you, and maybe the good ones will LFG instead of sticking to their friends who don't think they're a resurrection waiting to happen.

People forget that our solo-ability allows us to better make money and complete quests on our own. We're more self-sufficient and this means, sometimes anyway, that we can get access to better gear. Of course, it's easier to make an alt for that, like a druid, just saying...

Lets not forget that being a ranger is more than being a tank. Snaring, rooting, tracking, blasting, doting, healing, sowing, invising, bowing, dsing, taken together, make rangers equally valuable. Even on live I've saved people from dying simply by doing patch healing. Serious. I know for a fact that, at least on live, even our minimal healing could mean the difference between living and dying. That's just healing alone. I am not mentioning all of the other things we can do that people have always ignored because someone else can do it better. They forget that it's always nice to have more than 1 snarer. Redundancy means extra security.

People who sacrifice security for speed do so at a risk. It's true that some classes and abilities stack better than others, but when you're in a zone where things can change in a heart beat, then having redundancy is that much more important. Even the best snarer can forget to snare too.

You need to consider the entire class. People like to make things simpler than they really our. They can't comprehend all of our abilities and how they might help, it's too sporadic for them, that's why they keep things simple by obsessing about the trinity and only wanting people who specialize in one area.