What is BDA doing to work towards a raid agreement?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Handull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PS are we really making progress in this thread? it seems like it to me, which i find very exciting

I think I can get just about any guild on board with this and even staff, if people put aside their pride.

Just all depends on what person from the guild I have to deal with directly.

[khanable]

this thread started off like my parents

angry as hell at each other and drinking

and then they made something beautiful

[Handull]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this thread started off like my parents

angry as hell at each other and drinking

and then they made something beautiful

i stared out sober and serious, got more drunk as i went on, if we're being honest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

edit: tho i was being a bit cheeky

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need to rethink the wheel. Divinity came up with a very detailed plan and we put our support behind it.

That same plan was also agreed to by every guild except TMO and FE. Even IB signed off on it initially.

Every plan that has been proposed since by FE, Sirken, and Derubael have all had the same characteristics. Tiers to restrict the choice mobs from the casual crowd, poison pill clauses that drag guilds into the FFA shitshow against their will, inequitable splits on mobs, or all of the above. Proposing plans under different names with the same inherent characteristics isn't negotiating, it's a ruse.

There are two sides to this argument. Those who support a hardcore mindset, and those who support the casual mindset. Each side not budging is the fault of each side, not a specific party or a faction within a specific party.

Then why even play? Seriously, this game is purely and fundamentally FFA.

Stop using the argument that there will be trains, that you won't get mobs(you will get more mobs with ANY of these plans than in the past), and that the raid scene will be this absolute quintessential shit show that it was. Everyone has agreed and is trying to move past that, however it seems you are unable to.

I am hoping you do not represent BDA entirely. By reading everything in the raid discussion it is clear you are overly emotional to make any type of logical and sane argument or proposal.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then why even play? Seriously, this game is purely and fundamentally FFA.

Stop using the argument that there will be trains, that you won't get mobs(you will get more mobs with ANY of these plans than in the past), and that the raid scene will be this absolute quintessential shit show that it was. Everyone has agreed and is trying to move past that, however it seems you are unable to.

I am hoping you do not represent BDA entirely. By reading everything in the raid discussion it is clear you are overly emotional to make any type of logical and sane argument or proposal.

T1 - 50/50 of all raid targets outside VP, excluding Inny/CT/VS/Trak which is 1/3
T2 - 50/50 of all raid targets outside VP, excluding Inny/CT/VS/Trak which is 1/3

VP is FFA as well as 1/3 of the Inny/CT/VS/Trak spawns.


T1 is more "competitive" and stands to gain the FFA targets more (they put their money where their mouth is)
T2 is more leaning towards a rotation and don't stand to gain as much among each other.

The top tier mobs that FE/TMO/IB want Inny/CT/VS/Trak (which has been the reason every proposal has failed almost) basically have their rule set applied twice (unless they decide to change their FFA mentality)

T1 = TMO / FE / IB (if they choose)
T2 = all other guilds

T1 = their own rules
T2 = Their own rules

Any new guild can choose which to jump into, but are locked into it. This means any guild can choose between 2 different raiding styles and there are still ffa targets for the entire server (however they are heavily contested).

Repops still need to be addressed on how they'd be handled by staff/players, but everything seems to suggest FFA with a small bag limit.


Tier lock duration, as well as many other things are left open to debate and refine.

Raz, would you support this?

Also, where is my sig picture i made you?

[Razdeline]

I just read the raid discussion and it seems that Chest is coming around, great.

Personally, I always thought a simple system(like this one) would be best and has room for flexibility in the future. No one is really going to know if they like any of these proposals until they are implemented, that's why I think a variety of them should be implemented in some sort of consecutive manner. If we take a step back and actually read and think about each proposal, you would see that all of them cater to specific play-styles and philosophies.

This game was designed purely FFA. Maybe because instancing was not thought of for this at the time. I think because of this, it has given us wonderful drama and stories that we remember 10+ years later. I played WOW for a few years and can't recall any specific exciting or overly shitty moment. I enjoy that this game relates to real life in terms of survival of the fittest, social interaction, and economics. Definitely an phenomena of it's time.

The big picture here is that we can't forget the philosophy as to why everyone is playing here in the first place.

P.S. I can't remember! I think I was drunk one night and changing them a while ago. I am not sure! Make me a new one?!

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just read the raid discussion and it seems that Chest is coming around, great.

Personally, I always thought a simple system(like this one) would be best and has room for flexibility in the future. No one is really going to know if they like any of these proposals until they are implemented, that's why I think a variety of them should be implemented in some sort of consecutive manner. If we take a step back and actually read and think about each proposal, you would see that all of them cater to specific play-styles and philosophies.

This game was designed purely FFA. Maybe because instancing was not thought of for this at the time. I think because of this, it has given us wonderful drama and stories that we remember 10+ years later. I played WOW for a few years and can't recall any specific exciting or overly shitty moment. I enjoy that this game relates to real life in terms of survival of the fittest, social interaction, and economics. Definitely an phenomena of it's time.

The big picture here is that we can't forget the philosophy as to why everyone is playing here in the first place.

P.S. I can't remember! I think I was drunk one night and changing them a while ago. I am not sure! Make me a new one?!

Ah, good to hear (see). Seems several people from all the guilds I have talked to so far could go for raiding under something like this. Just have to get them to see what people can and can't live without from the different guilds (looks like everyone still has hang ups about things that can be adjusted)

P.S. WHAT!? That thing was a one of a kind... I don't know if I can pull something like that off again. Maybe I'll give it a shot one day when I'm feeling artistic.

[Brut]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Beyond any lawyered out rules, both TMO and FE have made it clear we're hoping to un-poop things because the extremes of the one-upsmanship game are, as you and so many others are quick to point out, absolutely fucking stupid.

/cheer

Just going on endlessly about how toxic the raidscene is and how these and those want nothing to do with it is silly. What the raidscene needs is antibiotics, not amputation. Pretty sure the big idea was to make this more playable for everyone so that we can go into Velious and beyond (as if - no yiffing allowed), but past days have consisted of nothing but bickering about # of CTs and VSs per month.

[doraf]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Will probably bring in aliens.

HAHAHAHA

[YendorLootmonkey]

If one of the points of contention is guilds taking down targets they don't need to sell epic MQs, is it a possibility to turn off the ability to MQ epics?

Or to bring in the Velious changes that remove epic bottlenecks (VS Remains, etc) ahead of schedule?