A wall of text on the global XP modifier, global OOC

[Bazia]

if you want to increase pop on red wipe it

if you want to decrease it remove global ooc and exp bonus

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with not being able to find groups is exacerbated by the XP modifier (which, as reminder, is currently at 300% + scaling bonus).

Example:

Day 1: Lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: Lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is lvl 10

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is lvl 10, shaman is lvl 20

These people will never group, unless one of the people who rolled after day 1 puts in a significant amount of play time to catch up. And if there was more than a day between their creations, forget it, because if they all play at a consistent rate, no one will ever catch up.

With a much lower modifier:

Day 1: lvl 1 shaman rolls

Day 2: lvl 1 warrior rolls, shaman is level 4

Day 3: lvl 1 wizard rolls, warrior is level 4, shaman is level 7

Day 4: Wizard is lvl 4, warrior is lvl 6 (he didn't play as much) shaman is level 9

These people are almost guaranteed to be within a grouping level range of each other, if not right off the bat, then very soon, because it gets harder to level.

The insane XP modifier literally prevents grouping, because even if everyone leveled at the same pace, unless they rolled on the same day the chances of them grouping up at any point is next to nothing. Even accounting for variable play times/effort, there will almost always be a disparity between levels because of how easy it is to get XP. And if you're a warrior, you might as well /q and roll a wizard, because you can't play here at all.

More realistically:

Warrior is stuck at lvl 15 because he can't solo. Quits with no one to group with.

Warrior is 15 shaman is 15 warrior wants to group but shaman wants to pvp and can solo so doesnt care about the warrior grouping with him. Shaman kills warrior, warrior rerolls wizard or quits.

Currently if you roll a character:


Day 1: you are alone
Day 2: you are alone
Day 3: twink harasses you
Day 4: maybe you find someone to group with.
Day 5: you are alone

We don't need 1000 level 1-50 players, we need 1000 50+ players.

If players quit before making it to 50 they don't even have chance to think about any of the high end raiding issues between guilds to cause them to quit.

Getting new players to stay and play from 1-50 is one challenge, and keeping players playing 52+ is another.

That's why getting new players AND keeping them here is important.

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for posting this, I've spoken to many people who shared the same experience (no investment + few relationships made along the way = no reason to stick around). I doubt any of the people I've talked to even read the forums, so I'm glad you said something.

Lower XP bonus = slower leveling = more groups = more attachment to the server and its players = lower turnover.

Lower xp bonus = slower leveling = people can't catch up quickly to the main server population = can't make friends or attachments to server.


It's not grinding mobs it's the PEOPLE part that makes it fun. Most people here are not low level.


Put yourself in a lvl 1 noobs mind. What does that person want to do? Do they want to kill some gnolls in qeynos hills or are they excited to crush orcs skulls? No they want to level up and make friends and become powerful and fight battles against other players.

No one is here to grind in split paw.

Having a slow xp rate just slows people down from getting what they want.

It's bs to say that if only the xp were slower you could enjoy the game more or somehow you will be more attached. That guy who quit at 51 and let all his shit rot would have quit at 15 because he wasn't dedicated in the first place, he was a quitter and would have quit earlier.

Slow xp rate would be good if 50 people made new characters all at once and planned to get to 50 with them but there just aren't enough new people, too many twinks, and too many hostile players.

[runlvlzero]

Every single day I ever played here. I was able to find a group 30 +. With normal exp that use to be 10+ on live. On blue here it's more like 20+ You can get 1-20 groups here if you brave cb or unrest until someone friendly logs in. Right now the incentive is to twink and avoid that. People are cowardly and dumb here at both ends of the spectrum.

Exp rules need tweaked so these people have to make the choice we all did in 99 and l2play in ek or rathe like pals at lvl14 to progress.

Would that bring me back soon, Naw. But neither would 500% more exp bonus. But people will need to learn social skills to survive in a social game for once. All skill in eq boils down to teamwork and zone knowledge anyway.

[Faerie]

I'm sticking by my red/blue merger with 4+/- pvp idea. Anything less and I'm dissatisfied.

Global ooc is necessary with a low population. It makes the game like a fun chatroom, even when you're sitting around LFG and would otherwise be bored. Some of the most enjoyable times I had during my late EQ career were chatting with other bards on the global bard channel. The problem is the "toxic" element making this an uninviting prospect for people that aren't sadistic or otherwise insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqKZ_WIK5ms

I don't understand why it seems too difficult to moderate the ooc channel. People probably shouldn't be suspended or banned for their ooc behavior, but assuming that it's simple to take away a person's ooc capabilities the solution seems obvious. If someone gets out of hand, switch their ability to ooc to "off" and let them appeal on the forums here if they want it reversed. Everyone fears losing their voice (also scary: bureaucracy). On a sever like this where the toxic players tend to exhibit attention-seeking behavior, the threat of losing their voice will likely be taken more seriously than a 2 day suspension during which they throw a hissy fit on the forums and stir up lots of self-gratifying drama. Being unable to send ooc messages seems like a more lenient punishment in lieu of suspensions and bans to everyone not involved, so it has the added bonus of causing less drama overall. And really, if you have to bar even 300 accounts from sending ooc messages, is this so difficult to do? One ooc ban at a time. Do it to one account and you're done with that account, unless they make it through the crazy petition process which I've heard horror stories about..

On the topic of the exp bonus: it has to go. When I made my druid it was right after a nerf to the exp bonus, and tons of people were complaining hardcore about it here. There was still a considerable bonus in effect, but it wasn't enough for them. Your mistake was ever giving them a bonus in the first place, because if we're being honest modern gamers seek out that instant gratification even if it bores them in the long run. As people were complaining about the exp rate I shot up to 50 in about a month; even after being deleveled a bunch by Kimm and Chewie.

And while I really made an effort to talk to people and make e-friends, when people would send me tells asking to group I would either tell them no or join them begrudgingly. It wasn't just the faster solo xp, it was that I made a ton more money soloing and spells in this game are ridiculously expensive if you're not rich. I'd suggest you increase coin drop modifiers for people in groups (pre-50) as well as introduce group exp bonuses. To counter the damage to the economy you could delete Nihilum's guildbank :P

But yeah, back on the exp. It was a mistake giving us anything, because we don't appreciate it and demand more. The current xp bonus wasn't even intended to be permanent, it was something nice Rogean did to make up for extended server downtime. But the red players demanded it stay on and made a big stink, and Rogean decided to let us have it long term. It damaged the server for all the reasons outlined in OP.

There is no reason that a solo class should have an experience bonus on this server over blue (except in groups). Leveling as a solo class is easier here than on blue because there is no competition for the prime xp spots. Xp should be exactly the same on red as it is on blue, with the exception of a scaling group modifier. I don't understand at all why people think soloing should be faster here than on the pve server.

To lessen the impact on population, the changes to xp should be done over time. I suggest you decrease the modifier by a set percentage every 24 hours, with the blue standard baseline being reached in 4-6 months. Start doing this without telling anyone, and when people really start to notice and begin throwing their tantrums on the forums, introduce the scaling group xp and coin bonuses. Maybe get the GMs looking for low-mid range groups and running mini GM events for them with illusion potion prizes and the like.

And never ever increase the exp modifiers on this server again. The players don't know what they want (and we're batshit insane), and you should never listen to our half-baked suggestions or whiny demands.

In terms of net gain and longevity, slow and steady wins the race. We learned this stuff in preschool.

And again, maybe you guys should just delete the blue server? It would do wonders for the real server.

[Faerie]

Actually don't do it by a fixed percentage. If you randomize the daily change while still keeping it really small people are even less likely to notice it.

[Cid]

I think there might be a little confusion between the real Classic atmosphere that existed on Live where you were deeply invested in your character, especially their reputation, and what we have today.

That era does not exist anymore, cannot exist anymore and will never exist again!

MMOs have changed dramatically and regardless of what game you are playing, the social atmosphere in every game has been irrevocably changed by all the MMOs that followed EQ. Instant gratification replaced the grind, Auction Houses replaced the interaction of a barter system, and the technical acumen of kids has increased while the market age for MMOs has gone down.
The majority of EQ players back then were adults, and though kids played, a certain level of maturity and manners prevailed. Over the last decade those kids grew up and became the majority, but without a lifetime prior to social media and being inundated with technology.
If you ever played WoW you've seen the change firsthand. Sadly, that is what MMOs are like now, and no amount of nostalgia or clicking the heels of your ruby slippers is going to change that. The game you remember is dead, eulogized and buried.

If we can stop thinking this is ever going to be like Live was, we can probably put that energy into constructive ways to help the server rather than just picking apart the suggestions, yes suggestions, made by one of the few people who could actually fucking do something.

People didn't spend 30+ days played getting to 60 because the experience was slower. It took that long because you didn't have the slightest idea where anything was. No wiki, no Allakhazam, no EQtraders, no maps in-game or on the net. You can play through ANY game much, much faster the second or third time playing because you know where things are. What used to be learning experiences and secrets are now common knowledge.

No matter how much glamourizing is centered on grouping, being a warrior without healing buddy could be classified as massochism. Being a paladin or especially a shadow knight and instantly losing almost half your xp before racial modifiers are considered might even be more frustrating. Those are your tanks who cannot bind, cannot gate, cannot even cast sow, and are automatically at a disadvantage to casters in either offense and/or pvp capabilities.
Or how about a rogue so that every light blue mob has a chance to beat your ass so bad your barbarian rogue is beaten down into a halfling rogue before you get away. Or a cleric that has a seriously limited offense unless fighting undead, and despite the fact that a lot of us have no life, we're not undead.

There are new people on Red EVERY SINGLE DAY, I know this for a fact regardless of the exact number. Help these people out. Extend a fucking olive branch, don't expect those people to miraculously find each other all over Norrath to begin a lifelong friendship through gaming.
Help a newb, shit, help two newbs. You don't have to PL them to 50 and fully gear them, but a few pp for spells and some rotting gear out of your bank could possibly mean the difference between a pvp apprentice and the guy who went back to Blue.

Lastly, please do something about sharing raid targets. I don't really care what you do. You can spawn yourself as the raid mob and slaughter a whole raid if that's what gets you off, but claiming the people here are adults or saying GMs didn't on Live or that you shouldn't have to just doesn't work. We're not adults, we're giant, selfish children who somehow took control of the daycare.
Verant GMs were constantly around and getting involved and they did not joke around when it came to preserving the integrity of the game and the high fantasy atmosphere. Hell, I was forced to delete my first character because I refused to change his name from Bigmidget Tinygiant to something authentic to the world. Those GMs were worse than the IRS.
The role of a GM is a shitty one, probably far moreso than I even realize. You all have my appreciation and admiration for the work you put in, but I believe everyone volunteered for this (Regret that shit now huh?) and it is time for hands on action.

I have nothing against any guild, nor do I support them, but if nothing changes we might as well rename the game Monopoly. I do not know if nothing has been done because of apathy or trepidation, but the stranglehold that exists has a subsequent trickle down effect on the whole server.
I am not insulting Nihilum, because I am 100% positive that any guild trying to compete would do the exact same thing if they had the chance, regardless of the pious speeches and whatever pedestal they are standing on.

Until children are taught to share and disciplined enough to do it, they will snatch away any toy another child shows interest in. They do not take the toy because they want to play with it, but to prevent any other kid from being able to play with it.

Sound familiar?

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Giovanni [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Suggested Revamp of Low Level Experience

Implement a teams based model up to level 46. This will not affect the high end game at all.

Provide an experience bonus for grouping with your team members and eliminate hybrid exp penalties.

Limit /ooc to your team members until lvl 46.

Do not change the overall experience rate. Both myself and Xantille have been playing since day 1. We have never hit 60 on a character.

While I look forward to the day when we can pvp on a relatively even playing field against the Nihilum no lifers, I would consider staying at a lower level just to enjoy a teams environment.

This sounds like it would be a lot of fun! And give ppl automatic friends to level with, shield newbs from ooc, while at the same time giving global communication channels. Awesome idea! And low level pvp might even become a thing if enough lowbies get on. This might attract new blues to dip their toes as well into a pvp environment as well?

I'd like to say it can be a 'beta' for teams but that would be stretching it. A+++ I'd love to see this get some serious consideration from GMs!

Originally Posted by Giovanni [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exp rate being too fast isn't what turns people off from the server.

Finally making it to the raid game and then realizing that there is no way to compete against the unemployed killing every raid mob on the server within a 3 hour window between 8am-11am on a Thursday so they can RMT the loots back to you while Maximillian posts your cellphone number to the M4MMMM section on Craiglist is what kills the server.

Developers developers developers developers
(And for all you who ain't developers: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OrsHGdBRklE)

[Tradesonred]

Its too late IMO to see things like this (OP). You wanna get people to log in on a low pop server, you need an incentive. Ive not been in a group once on my lvl12 rogue. Not once. (actually once or twice in crushbone for very short periods of time)

It took me something like 6-8 hours to get to level 12 and ive got a rubi BP, a FBSS and a hand me down piercer.

Its still a very long road to 52 with this setup.

Just try it. Roll a toon, a naked toon. Play on the server.

If you play everquest to be alone you might as well quit before lvl10. Guilds are actively recruiting lower level characters, so its not exactly be farmed at 52 by level 60s. You reach that sweet spot where people are going to help you with those last miles like i did a group recently, buffing them, healing, slowing for them etc... those are early 50s in my guild.

What you are saying, i would agree for a brand new server, with 600ish population, like how things started on red. Now what do you encounter the most on your journey to 52? Bored hard twinks out to grief you. At least at 52 youre hanging once in a while with your high level toon guildies for protection.

Again, i suggest you play on the server. It seems condescending a bit to say this but i dont know, i doubt youve tried to level a character to 52. Reach 52 on a character and then see if you want xp to be nerfed after. The population at low levels just isnt there. Yes wouldnt it be great if we nerfed xp and there was groups to be had and you could enjoy the journey etc... sure. But theres no groups to be had.

You want to encourage the few people there are at low levels to group up and enjoy the journey so it snowballs into a bigger pop? Then add a group xp bonus on top of the one thats already there.

Nerfing xp now will only entrench the old population more in their dominance. With xp that isnt a terrible hardcore grind, i can attempt to level a character solo (not because i think xp is better, theres just no one to group with), knowing ill get power leveled once in a while and helped at 52. Even with those advantages, if the xp is nerfed badly i will probably drop my alt and my shaman will be the only character i will ever level to high levels on red. Imagine a naked noob without any contacts on the server. So the newbies are losing a potential grouping partner because im not interested in boring myself to death on a really hard grind. On a theoritical server where theres groups to be had, and though the xp is slow, im enjoying the journey to 60, im not bored. But that isnt red99.

The speed to reach level52 must be reasonable so we continue to add population to this level bracket, where most of the population is. As more and more population reaches those levels, it becomes possible for new alliances, new guilds to pop up. Those people will then roll alts which will play with new players coming in, round and round it snowballs like this. They will have a high level toon they can use for some relaxing camping items for their alt time, helping other lowbies starting out, etc, etc... More options other than grind, grind or grind. Its too late now to want to have a slow, enjoy the journey server, you need to salvage whats left of red99. Either wipe the server and start it with slower xp (so the population is bottlenecked at the lower levels, giving you your enjoy the journey server), or be realistic about the status of Red99.

Thats another thing thats nice with slow xp like this but not crazy slow. Its that i get to try other classes.

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The insane XP modifier literally prevents grouping, because even if everyone leveled at the same pace, unless they rolled on the same day the chances of them grouping up at any point is next to nothing. Even accounting for variable play times/effort, there will almost always be a disparity between levels because of how easy it is to get XP. And if you're a warrior, you might as well /q and roll a wizard, because you can't play here at all.

Ive not seen many players at all in fact. Population will probably double as Velious nears its launch. That will be the chance (probably one of the last) to jumpstart red again and make the population snowball in a good way. If you kill xp before server reaches 500ish regularly, mark my words, population will tank.

[Not_Kazowi]

Removing ooc is the quickest way to make this server feel incredibly dead. Probably 85% of zones have no one in them which creates a ghost town feeling. Ooc brings the server a lively feeling, just police it don't remove it.

If you remove exp bonus you will lose people. In theory making people earn their levels and grouping is a great idea but it isn't reality. These things don't work on a 100 man server. Who cares if turn over rate is higher with exp bonus, it still adds population to the server and at this point we can't be picky on how we do that.