People that never played classic EQ

[jwilda]

Since this has basically broken down into a WoW vs EQ comparison, this is what makes EQ "harder" in my eyes:

WoW has tools that tell you what to do, or how to play the game. These include, but are not limited to: DBM, Decursive, Healbot, etc..

If you used DBM during raids (who didn't?), you no longer have to think about what you are doing, you are just reacting to a message telling you to run this way, or telling you not to stand in green slime, or to duck and cover because something is going to blow up.

Decursive tells you when somebody is poisoned, cursed, etc. You just click a now discolored box and it casts the spell for you. You don't even have to fucking think about what you're doing! You are just reacting to something changing on your screen.

Healbot displays all the health bars in your raid/party. You don't even have to know who the main tank is! Just click the health bars that aren't at 100% and the addon does the rest.

You don't have to think to be successful at WoW, you just have to react based on what you are being told by a program that is doing the work for you.

EQ requires you to be much aware of your group/raid/zone/etc. It requires you to make hotkeys to target your MT, ST, MA, and so on.

It required you to do frustrating tasks just to get all of your spells (hello PoP parchment and OoW rune turn ins).

Basically, EQ required much more dedication to get the most out of your character, and it was much more rewarding as a result.

[forensic]

Look buddy.

You would not have access to all of this EQ game knowledge and easy mode exploits in the first place if other players had not created and discovered these exploits and taught you how to do them.

WOW is absolutely full of exploits that make the game even easier. I was one of the first people on my WOW server to main tank a molten core raid. I was the 2nd warrior on my server to have full valor armor. So being a pioneer in that game I learned a shitload of bugs that most WOW players never learned of, certainly never figured out themselves, and these days have never heard of.

WHY haven't most wow players heard of the countless wow bugs that make wow even easier?

Because THEY DON'T NEED THEM

In EQ, people find the game SO HARD that they seek out and exploit countless bugs to make it easier. These bugs become known as game essentials and are spread far and wide until the point where the majority of players are playing in a way that is unrecognizable compared to ClassicEQ because those players have game knowledge of bugs that were unknown in ClassicEQ.

You are saying that with maximum knowledge of all the quirks, all the bugs, all the idiosyncracies of EQ, where you avoid the normal progression and don't play cold but rather read the Wiki to learn all of the tricks to make the game easy... then the game becomes easy. But all of that reading takes a lot of effort. In WOW people don't have to read 500 pages of information on how to exploit the quirks of the game in order to win. In WOW brand new players who have NEVER played an MMO join the game and just go for it without ever reading anything, learning about any wow exploits, or learning any non-intuitive tactics like camping.

They also don't stick to easy outdoor zones, but find it quite simple to form a group and complete 100% of the ClassicWOW content including low and mid level dungeons.

In ClassicWOW there WERE and ARE tons of exploits to make the game easier. For instance in 2004 I leveled a mage from 1 to 60 in 2.5 days /played, or about 4 days real time. I then geared up the mage to max equipment in another few weeks. I completely dominated the game using all the knowledge that my elite guild had GENERATED as they tested and probed the game to FIND the bugs that people like you don't find but only use and then claim you're good because you stole someone else's tactics off an internet forum.

Let's see you try to beat EQ without the benefit of all the knowledge you stole from Fires of Heaven and other elite EQ guilds that taught everyone else how to play the game.

EQ is hard because take two virgin newbies and sit them down on two different PCs and watch what happens. The newbie on EQ will fucking crash and burn and never recover. Without the benefit of forums and cultural knowledge from other players that newbie will likely quit before level 20 as a total failure--maybe because his stat allocations were bad, because his class choice was bad, his gearing was bad, because he doesn't know the EASY MODE spots to camp, because he constantly gets ganked by pathing reds and is unable to have forward XP momentum due to XP loss.

The newbie in WOW will have an easy prance to max level. She will complete all the dungeons along the way and will never have to even type anything to any other person. She can literally just go outside a dungeon and spam group add or wait for an invite, then complete the dungeon in silence, get her loot in silence, etc. This is because WOW doesn't require the extensive cultural knowledge of bugs and exploits and min/max stratgies that were passed down from the original elite EQ guilds to all you NEWBS WHO JUST USE THE SHIT WE CAME UP WITH AND NEVER CAME UP WITH IT YOURSELF.

You think you're good at the game because you can copy the strategies of other people who were good at the game.

Guess what? The people who are good at the game can fucking beat level appropriate content in level appropriate gear.

You think you beat the game because you get to max level. But everyone knows that is ridiculous. You haven't beat DOOM just because you can get to the end on easy mode. You have to play on Nightmare difficulty or you're a newb. You have to actually beat all the doom bosses if you want to say you beat doom.

EQ is so hard that very very few people even try to beat it. Those that DO beat it usually rely on stealing the strategies from players who were far more skilled than they are.

[Eliseus]

In terms of the UI, absolutely EQ is probably the hardest MMO in the planet with it's UI. I get where you are going with the DBM comment, because it has been a crutch in WoW's "easy mode" comments, but at the same time, you would assume more people would be clearing the hardest content with said program, but it is on the contrary because it still requires precison movement.

The reason it turned into an EQ vs WoW was because it was originally EQ vs modern MMOs since most MMOs now and days derive from the mentality to create a game for casual play, but people kept comparing to WoW, and considering I have extensive knowledge in WoW, I figure I would just compare EQ to WoW, and what better comparison than what some would consider the hardest MMO ever and the easiest MMO ever.

[forensic]

So in conclusion, come back when you've beat the following dungeons at appropriate levels in level appropriate gear:

Qeynos Catacombs
Blackburrow
Crushbone
Befallen
Minotaur Caves in Steamfont
Upper Guk
Gorge of King Xorbb
Unrest
Najena
HHK
Runnyeye
Splitpaw Lair
Cazic Thule
Lower Guk
Kedge Keep

and for kunark:

Kurn's
Dalnir
Kaesora
Mines of Nurga
Temple of Droga
Karnor's
Old Seb
Chardok
Howling Stones
City of Mist
Veeshan's Peak


all of this shit is way harder than anything in WOW. It just is. Kunark raid content is still harder than BC or WOTLK content. I would know because I've beaten all of it. In EQ the game knowledge that was necessary to generate and discover was tremendous. in WOW this hurdle was significantly easier to surmount.

If you haven't beaten Dalnir or Qeynos Catacombs you can't say that you've beaten EQ. It's fucking ridiculous that you want to avoid the content and then claim the game is easy. MMORPGs are sandbox games that allow you do choose a difficulty level, just like most games where you can set the difficulty level.

Setting the difficulty level to HARD in Mortal Kombat or DOOM is not "stupid" it is called "What you have to do if you want to claim you've won."

Come back when you've even noticed just how hard fucking Runnyeye is

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by forensic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look buddy.

You would not have access to all of this EQ game knowledge and easy mode exploits in the first place if other players had not created and discovered these exploits and taught you how to do them.

WOW is absolutely full of exploits that make the game even easier. I was one of the first people on my WOW server to main tank a molten core raid. I was the 2nd warrior on my server to have full valor armor. So being a pioneer in that game I learned a shitload of bugs that most WOW players never learned of, certainly never figured out themselves, and these days have never heard of.

WHY haven't most wow players heard of the countless wow bugs that make wow even easier?

Because THEY DON'T NEED THEM

In EQ, people find the game SO HARD that they seek out and exploit countless bugs to make it easier. These bugs become known as game essentials and are spread far and wide until the point where the majority of players are playing in a way that is unrecognizable compared to ClassicEQ because those players have game knowledge of bugs that were unknown in ClassicEQ.

You are saying that with maximum knowledge of all the quirks, all the bugs, all the idiosyncracies of EQ, where you avoid the normal progression and don't play cold but rather read the Wiki to learn all of the tricks to make the game easy... then the game becomes easy. But all of that reading takes a lot of effort. In WOW people don't have to read 500 pages of information on how to exploit the quirks of the game in order to win. In WOW brand new players who have NEVER played an MMO join the game and just go for it without ever reading anything, learning about any wow exploits, or learning any non-intuitive tactics like camping.

They also don't stick to easy outdoor zones, but find it quite simple to form a group and complete 100% of the ClassicWOW content including low and mid level dungeons.

In ClassicWOW there WERE and ARE tons of exploits to make the game easier. For instance in 2004 I leveled a mage from 1 to 60 in 2.5 days /played, or about 4 days real time. I then geared up the mage to max equipment in another few weeks. I completely dominated the game using all the knowledge that my elite guild had GENERATED as they tested and probed the game to FIND the bugs that people like you don't find but only use and then claim you're good because you stole someone else's tactics off an internet forum.

Let's see you try to beat EQ without the benefit of all the knowledge you stole from Fires of Heaven and other elite EQ guilds that taught everyone else how to play the game.

EQ is hard because take two virgin newbies and sit them down on two different PCs and watch what happens. The newbie on EQ will fucking crash and burn and never recover. Without the benefit of forums and cultural knowledge from other players that newbie will likely quit before level 20 as a total failure--maybe because his stat allocations were bad, because his class choice was bad, his gearing was bad, because he doesn't know the EASY MODE spots to camp, because he constantly gets ganked by pathing reds and is unable to have forward XP momentum due to XP loss.

The newbie in WOW will have an easy prance to max level. She will complete all the dungeons along the way and will never have to even type anything to any other person. She can literally just go outside a dungeon and spam group add or wait for an invite, then complete the dungeon in silence, get her loot in silence, etc. This is because WOW doesn't require the extensive cultural knowledge of bugs and exploits and min/max stratgies that were passed down from the original elite EQ guilds to all you NEWBS WHO JUST USE THE SHIT WE CAME UP WITH AND NEVER CAME UP WITH IT YOURSELF.

You think you're good at the game because you can copy the strategies of other people who were good at the game.

Guess what? The people who are good at the game can fucking beat level appropriate content in level appropriate gear.

You think you beat the game because you get to max level. But everyone knows that is ridiculous. You haven't beat DOOM just because you can get to the end on easy mode. You have to play on Nightmare difficulty or you're a newb. You have to actually beat all the doom bosses if you want to say you beat doom.

EQ is so hard that very very few people even try to beat it. Those that DO beat it usually rely on stealing the strategies from players who were far more skilled than they are.

Again, I played EQ when I was 10, and back then only Kunark was out. I definitely had limited knowledge back then in terms of both strats I could find, and just because I was 10. And the way I played back then, I still play the same when I play on project 1999. You almost imply that it is a requirement to play EQ like you are dumb. I'm having a hard time though trying to figure out how to respond to you anymore due to the raging thoughts of inaccurate information, it actually hurts my head trying to comprehend everything going on in your post. I am pretty dumb though. On top of it all, you are making comparisons to games not even relevant at all to the discussion.

[forensic]

I guarantee you've never stepped foot into Dalnir.

You even admit that you didn't play ClassicEQ. You don't know what you're talking about. I remember classicEQ and I remember the hordes of shitty players who would pick the easiest classes possible and only do the easiest, most broken and exploitable content.

They would usually pick Druid or Mage. The easy mode classes. They would never set foot into a dungeon and would buy their gear instead of earning it. They would miss 90% of the content and never kill let or alone see most bosses.

Stepping foot into dungeons that are the essence of playing the game is not being stupid. It is PLAYING THE GAME.

You are now saying that actually playing the game and beating the content is a sign of stupidity. I'm not saying you should be stupid... I'm saying you should try your hardest to beat the actual content that exists that you are afraid of because you suck.

You might as well just not pick up the game in first place.

<sarcasm> What's the SMARTEST way to BEAT THE GAME? Just buy a level 60 character with max gear on ebay!!! Now I've beaten the game and it was so easy!! I haven't seen ANY of the content...but because I'm max level I won and the game is easy!</sarcasm>

Buying a character to get to max level is not a sign of skill or a sign that the game is easy. Just like SKIPPING the game to get to max level is not a sign that the game is easy but rather that the player is a very boring and timid person who probably lives a boring and lame life.

You do realize this is a game that is supposed to be fun right? If you're not having fun you're a loser.

[Eliseus]

So, your argument is EQ is harder if you make it harder. I thought we already established this.

[forensic]

My argument is that EQ is harder across the board.

Especially if you actually try to BEAT THE GAME by COMPLETING THE CONTENT rather than eBaying your way to max level...

It's not stupid to BEAT THE GAME

It's not stupid to COMPLETE THE CONTENT

Leveling to 60 on an easy mode class is not the same as beating the game, just like getting to the end of DooM on the "I'm too young to die" difficulty setting is NOT beating the game.

You are the type of person who played DooM on "I'm too young to die" but also researches all the DooM exploits and bugs, and then downloads mods and hacks, and probably even uses cheat codes (idspispopd, idkfa) and then says the game is easier than Angry Birds.

You are a joke and everyone is laughing at you

[Eliseus]

Originally Posted by forensic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My argument is that EQ is harder across the board.

Especially if you actually try to BEAT THE GAME by COMPLETING THE CONTENT rather than eBaying your way to max level...

It's not stupid to BEAT THE GAME

It's not stupid to COMPLETE THE CONTENT

Leveling to 60 on an easy mode class is not the same as beating the game, just like getting to the end of DooM on the "I'm too young to die" difficulty setting is NOT beating the game.

You are the type of person who played DooM on "I'm too young to die" but also researches all the DooM exploits and bugs, and then downloads mods and hacks, and probably even uses cheat codes (idspispopd, idkfa) and then says the game is easier than Angry Birds.

You are a joke and everyone is laughing at you

lol

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Rating this thread 1 star due to this autism-fueled TLDR taking up pages 5-8.

You should feel bad. You wrecked a pretty good thread.