Classic EQ and Luclin Models

[heartbrand]

If I ever have to play in 1st person im out

[Ele]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I ever have to play in 1st person im out

You can always switch to 3rd person with F9 and constantly fiddle with the camera to keep the angle correct!

[Jimjam]

You've ruined your own models, you won't ruin ours, Luclin!

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Tiewon Shu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are going to add custom content later in the "spirit of EQ," how is that classic?

"Classic" isn't simply classic.

"Classic" can mean classic mechanics and/or classic experience.

Even if the server were a 100% perfect recreation of the mechanics and features present back in the day (i.e. classic mechanics), the server wouldn't have a truly classic experience because the playerbase is so much different now.

On the other hand, assuming it is somehow possible to recreate the exact feelings we all had playing EQ for the first time (i.e. classic experience), the only way to do that would be with a ton of mechanics and features that did NOT exist back in the day, which would leave us learning anew how the game works and what the zones look like and stuff.


Adding custom content can be "classic" by using mechanics that are reminiscent of those in old EQ, but that aren't actually from old EQ, which help recreate the feelings we all had when experiencing EQ for the first time back in the day.

[Danyelle]

As the person who initially made the patch that all of this is about, you're all acting like children. both parties.

Oh wahhh someone likes something i don't like! Rape and murder them and eat their organs they deserve it!

Oh wahhh the devs, who have every right to do so, removed a feature that was unofficial to begin with and doesn't meet up with the direction the server is intended to head! They are Nazis and Satan incarnate and should be destroyed!

Grow the fuck up. All of you. It's done, it's over. They aren't coming back. If you don't like the game without Luclin models, leave. There is a Live game still and tons of emu servers that have the model enabled. You can also just play without them. If you don't like the Luclin models, cool we get it, you're the P99 cool kid, you're like the people that smoke weed and don't shut up about it. You 'won' drop it and move on.

For what it's worth, I made the patch because i saw people asking for it and it was simple enough to figure out and put together. I interpreted Nilbog's replies to requests for the models as "I will not spend any time making them as they aren't Classic, but if someone else does, I don't care". The fact no dev ever approached me after it was posted, it wasn't (until now obviously) patched to disable them, and I wasn't even banned, enforced my interpretation of his replies. I was also never addressed about exploits. 90% of them are on Red it seems. I have always thought EQ PvP was dog shit. I can see why someone would like it but it doesn't interest me in EQ's format. So I never encountered the exploits myself. Had someone told me, I'd have taken the patch down.

For those crying that they patched them, stop. It's childish. This is their server, it's free to most of you (and donators do so on their own terms), and the models weren't Classic. They were gracious to allow them for....4 years now? But they had every right to take them down. If that ruins it for you, leave.

And the dogmatic Classicers. Shut up, seriously. You're obnoxious. It's not just insults over an opinion. Some of you are basically advocating violence because someone liked a thing. Holy fuck what are you, 6 years old? You're taking this shit way too fucking seriously.

There's like 900 threads and posts about these models and it's sparked the most drama I've seen since the last time someone uttered the acronym "TMO". I think it's time these discussions died. Just go enjoy Velious for fuck's sake.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Grow the fuck up. All of you. It's done, it's over.

I completely agree, but with the brony avatar this gave me a giggle.

[Glamdring6]

This discussion all distills down to a matter of preference, what people like or don't. Honestly I am surprised by all the negatively charged emotion surrounding this topic; is this how some of you treat others in real life with differing opinions or views? Whether or not the newer models are displayed is a choice that effects only that individual and no one else. I get that some really like or dislike the newer graphics, that it alters the way you experience the world, but you could pass by each other and have no idea what the other player employed. I would understand if this created practical issues (exploits for which those cheating should be punished or extra maintenance for devs) I would understand, but that doesn't seem to be the case ...

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...For what it's worth, I made the patch because i saw people asking for it and it was simple enough to figure out and put together. I interpreted Nilbog's replies to requests for the models as "I will not spend any time making them as they aren't Classic, but if someone else does, I don't care". The fact no dev ever approached me after it was posted, it wasn't (until now obviously) patched to disable them, and I wasn't even banned, enforced my interpretation of his replies. I was also never addressed about exploits. 90% of them are on Red it seems...

I first started playing Everquest in 1999 not long after its release and it was a huge part of middle school and high school for my friends and I. Although we eventually left sometime in 2005 because we no longer cared for the direction all the expansions had taken the game, we always remembered playing in those early years. It was a source of so many good memories and nostalgia that it became the bar by which all future MMOs were measured and all of them fell short. Project 1999 was something my friends and I often wished existed since we left EQlive and when we found it we were all too happy to loose countless hours to playing this game.

All that suffice to say I have a great amount of reverence and respect for the work the devs have done and continue to do to bring this game to us. They have every right to create the vision they had when they first undertook this project, and we as a community are here because we have so much admiration for the world they're trying to recreate. If it is matter of interpretation however, or a matter of preference as to what lens we view the world through and it takes so little give us the choice I would humbly ask we were given that choice, and furthermore as a community we remembered we are all here for the same reason.

[Kevris]

Originally Posted by Glamdring6 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This discussion all distills down to a matter of preference, what people like or don't. .

It does create practical issues; it has been pointed out many times by many people that the Luclin-era troll/ogre models are able to reach places the classic models cannot.

Not to mention the fact that nobody's personal preference takes precedence over the vision of the server: to present a classic Everquest experience.

That means no target rings, no compasses, no con-colors on the target windows and none of the other so-called quality of life enhancements.

You may be about to say: "what about the night vision, the UI ..etc"

Rest assured they would change that if it were possible.

[Glamdring6]

Originally Posted by Kevris [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It does create practical issues; it has been pointed out many times by many people that the Luclin-era troll/ogre models are able to reach places the classic models cannot.

Not to mention the fact that nobody's personal preference takes precedence over the vision of the server: to present a classic Everquest experience.

That means no target rings, no compasses, no con-colors on the target windows and none of the other so-called quality of life enhancements.

You may be about to say: "what about the night vision, the UI ..etc"

Rest assured they would change that if it were possible.

I am aware that luclin models can lead to exploits, but if you look at what I quoted it seems it wasn't really an issue other than perhaps on Red, and I am all for those that cheat being punished accordingly. I am admittedly relatively new to P99 and haven't spent a lot of time on forums but it would seem to me most people are not using the newer models for these exploits, although if it has been a rampant issue I understand how some could ruin it for all.

I agree that what the players want does not take precedence over what the devs envision for the server and I said as much, but again if you look at what was quoted in my post it seemed like there is room for interpretation of that vision.

As far as some of the other "quality of life" changes, I did not mention them because they effect the play and mechanics of the game. Things like not having a compass or map and having to actually navigate and know your zones is one of the many reasons I like classic Everquest and why I choose to spend my time playing Project 1999. As for things like the UI not being classic I understand why they cant do anything about it (and I think such things or discussion of custom content distract from the topic at hand) and I don't mind it, but similarly they could do nothing and allow the people that do appreciate a different look/aesthetic to have it.

[Kevris]

Originally Posted by Glamdring6 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am aware that luclin models can lead to exploits, but if you look at what I quoted it seems it wasn't really an issue other than perhaps on Red, and I am all for those that cheat being punished accordingly. I am admittedly relatively new to P99 and haven't spent a lot of time on forums but it would seem to me most people are not using the newer models for these exploits, although if it has been a rampant issue I understand how some could ruin it for all.

I agree that what the players want does not take precedence over what the devs envision for the server and I said as much, but again if you look at what was quoted in my post it seemed like there is room for interpretation of that vision.

As far as some of the other "quality of life" changes, I did not mention them because they effect the play and mechanics of the game. Things like not having a compass or map and having to actually navigate and know your zones is one of the many reasons I like classic Everquest and why I choose to spend my time playing Project 1999. As for things like the UI not being classic I understand why they cant do anything about it (and I think such things or discussion of custom content distract from the topic at hand) and I don't mind it, but similarly they could do nothing and allow the people that do appreciate a different look/aesthetic to have it.

The issue on Red is wholly different: they modified game files to change skeletons to have a default human appearance so as to defeat the lack of nameplates above the heads of skeletons. That said, it matters little: If Luclin troll/ogre models have an advantage over the classic models, regardless of how small it is, it affects gameplay. If it affects gameplay, it is not a personal preference. It doesn't matter if it's one person, or the entire server using it: just because it is a "small" problem doesn't mean it's not a problem.

As to the "vision" of the server being open to interpretation, how is it so? They have consistently and relentlessly removed non-classic mechanics as they are found/as they are able to. There is no interpretation there: they want Everquest in the Velious Era. That's the vision, that's the goal, that's the server as best as possible. They can and will continue to remove things that people "like" because they were not available during Velious. This not open to interpretation. You say you are new here, so I'm sure you weren't around when they pulled out the compass, the target rings, or any of the other non-classic stuff. Kleenex stock shot up 10%, and stores all across the US were out of stock on ass-doughnuts to sit on for weeks as a large number of p99 players needed them to dry their tears and soothe their butthurt.

As to the UI, it is actually not simply a matter of aesthetics; it is makes the game significantly easier to manage. One chat window with all of the information the game presents is far, far more difficult to manage than a modern UI. The increased number of hotkeys, the extra chat windows and all of the other things you see on a modern UI make the game easier, they don't just look pretty. Think of it like a car: the classic Everquest UI was a stick with no tachometer. Modern Everquest has a tachomter and a lot of other gauges. This is not an aesthetic change, it changes the way you drive. Rather than knowing when to shift by the feel of the vehicle, the sound from the engine, you look at the dial and know exactly when to do so.