Idea for custom content: Classic Spirit server

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A bad enc can just follow a group around, suck up exp, and respond to C / haste requests. And this will immediately make pretty much any exp group so much better.

A bad enc responds to C / Haste requests....after 5-30 minutes of asking.... lol

A good enc refreshes before it's about to fade (since they cast on themselves to time)....but a bad enc is "please, haste...please.....what? You're oom??? WHY ARE YOU NUKING?! If they are on you, ROOT THEM! .....someone revive the ench....again...."

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ classes are so obviously imbalanced that the devs couldn't possibly have actually intended them to be "balanced" in the modern understanding. Trying to do so, therefore, isn't in keeping with the spirit OR the mechanics of the game; you're basically just making a truly custom server and using the words "classic spirit" to make it sound more palatable.

And even beyond that, you have strong biases that show through in your balancing attempts. You heavily penalize solo players despite many classes having toolkits that obviously contemplated solo play? You nerf the enchanters to the ground, buff the hell out of wizards, and tweak some melee classes. But you don't address the asinine discrepancy between clerics and other healers? Between raid warriors and other raid tanks? You don't buff rogues to be more than a player mage pet who can sometimes drag corpses? Lol.

Personally as far as class balance goes, I'd limit enchanter charm to humanoids, give wizards innate crits and massively buff harvest, eliminate class exp bonuses/penalties, nerf CH (perhaps make it heal a percentage of max or something so it still is a unique, powerful spell), buff poisons damage and utility potential, give paladins significant self-healing perks, give SKs significant lifetap perks, give rangers significant archery perks. I don't know what else but I feel like that would go a long ways to evening out the classes without drastically altering their original design/vibe like totally reworking charm, moving clarity around, giving SK undead crits, etc. does. I want to say "no" to melody, but I guess I've never played a bard with it so maybe it's just a RSI relief and laziness tool more than a real adjustment to the class's power.

The idea is to not to balance the classes in the sense that every class is equally powerful, it's to simply reduce the power disparity between classes while making as few changes as possible to the game. So, no, I don't want to change Rogues or modify CH. I just want the weakest classes (Wiz, Hybrids) to get a little extra boost and knock the OP classes (Ench, Shm, Monk) down a peg. And I want to emphasize, the main point is in making as few changes as possible, otherwise the game quickly becomes unrecognizable.

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the classic "in spirit" parts, but the random buffs/nerfs to classes are very unnecessary imho.

Randomly buffing Wizards and hybrids is totally not classic in spirit. Nor is nerfing Shamans and solo players. The pet window is also not classic in spirit at all. I'd also hold off on nerfing monks until they are actually super OP (Velious).

Class balance changes are classic AF. Literally every patch was tweaking class balance in some way. The devs clearly did not want enormous power disparities between the classes. They wanted each class to be distinct and powerful within its own niche. Thought experiment: imagine the original EQ dev team in 1999-2000 had all the knowledge of EQ tactics and mechanics that we have now. Do you really think they would leave class balance the way it is, or would they make some adjustments, with some classes being buffed and some nerfed?

Also, on a more general note, it's interesting that almost all the negative feedback has been in regards to the proposed class balance changes. I can only assume that means most people are in favor of the other changes, which is what I expected.

[loramin]

Wow, when a post is made at 7AM, and by the afternoon it's already reached 8 pages, you know the OP struck a nerve! Good job OP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want the weakest classes (Wiz, Hybrids) to get a little extra boost and knock the OP classes (Ench, Shm, Monk) down a peg.

The game is supposed to be a group game.....the answer isn't "we need to make everyone who doesn't solo stomp the end game able to do that!"....

It's "everyone trivializing the game content, we should pull their power back".

And also cap the level at level 30. Then no matter how powerful you think you are, you aint. Even pet classes get super hit, since their pets are NPC pet levels.....which a player can surpass with equipment easily in being able to hit higher level things.

BOOM BOW! Make EQ hard again!

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The idea is to not to balance the classes in the sense that every class is equally powerful, it's to simply reduce the power disparity between classes while making as few changes as possible to the game. So, no, I don't want to change Rogues or modify CH. I just want the weakest classes (Wiz, Hybrids) to get a little extra boost and knock the OP classes (Ench, Shm, Monk) down a peg. And I want to emphasize, the main point is in making as few changes as possible, otherwise the game quickly becomes unrecognizable.

I guess I don't think the classes are that unbalanced. I mainly just think charm and AOE are OP, because the game was tuned for 56k modems and Pentium IIs.

I also don't think Monk is super OP until Velious raid gear. Topor is OP, but it's pretty hard to get a hold of, which makes it acceptable somehow. Also there is no reason to nerf soloing, as the hybrids and wizards can actually sorta do that, which is one of their advantages over pure melee.

I also don't think you can make all these changes AND also understand how that affects class balance enough to make specific class ability tweaks. For example, no item recharging and no mallets is a huge warrior nerf in itself, and therefore a hybrid buff.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, when a post is made at 7AM, and by the afternoon it's already reached 8 pages, you know the OP struck a nerve! Good job OP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah we re bored today [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[zodium]

it would be sensible to nerf halflings, as we are completely overpowered

[Erati]

Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it would be sensible to nerf halflings, as we are completely overpowered

false.

Only one face unlocks halfling power thats worth nerfing.

Maybe add like a unibrow or runny nose boogers to limit the potential easy gains.

[Vexenu]

So based on the excellent feedback and criticism (much of it quite valid) I would amend the proposal to this:

• Item recharging disabled
• Multiquesting disabled
• Midnight Mallet effect changed to proc
• Ivandyr's Hoop effect removed from item
• Wooly Spider Silk Nets changed to LORE
• Soulfire clicky changed to Paladin-only
• Reaper of the Dead clicky changed to SK-only
• All high-level droppable weapons and armor tagged with level requirements (twinking still possible but you must use more level-appropriate gear rather than super-high end stuff)
• ZEMs of uncommonly utilized dungeons increased
• "Hot zones" with additional XP bonus rotated regularly through uncommonly utilized dungeons
• Particularly dangerous/annoying leveling dungeons (Runnyeye, Cazic-Thule, etc...) optimized for easier play (i.e. fix excessive NPC mana pools and healing/aggroing through walls)
• Legacy items (Manastone, Guise, JBoots, Rubicite, etc...) NOT in game. They demonstrably cause more trouble than they're worth on a new server
• AOE spell limit in place (no Chardok AOE)
• All charm spells limited to a fixed six-tick duration (36 sec). They either resist outright or last 36 seconds every time (Charm becomes emergency CC and/or risky short-term DPS/tanking, not the OP monstrosity it is now)
  
• Clarity removed from Enchanters and given to Wizards
• JBB equivalent clicky added for Wizards in Kunark era
• Spell: Harvest changed from returning 10% mana every 10 minutes to 20% mana every 3 minutes
• Wizards given innate spell criticals
• Paladins and SKs given innate undead criticals
• Melody implemented for Bards
• Monk AC/mitigation nerfed to post-Velious patch level towards end of Velious timeline
• Lifetap spells restored to lure/unresistable status
• Pet window enabled (QoL)
• Torpor overwrites runspeed buffs and drains 50 mana per tick
• Hybrid XP penalty removed
• -25% XP penalty for solo players
• +5% XP bonus for each player in group
• +5% XP bonus removed from Halflings and given to Humans
• Player-enforced raid rotations mandatory, with semi-regular simulated server resets (Earthquakes) that are FFA on all raid mobs

At this point I think the most contentious change would be making charm a fixed 36 second duration. But as was pointed out, this actually makes charm better and more predictable in certain applications. Highly skilled Enchanters would still got a lot of mileage out of charm. But it definitely makes it harder for JoeBlow_Enchanter_001 to charm for easy XP and massive group DPS. I think it's a good compromise.

But I would love to hear more ideas from people on how to balance charm in the spirit of classic. I think it's one of the most important considerations.

[Evia]

Charm would be fine if they increased % of chance to break and made it so Enchanters cant charm anything only humanoids.

I actually liked the idea of Clarity to Wizards.