Melee Worthlessness - The Biggest Balance Problem There Is

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogues do the most damage of any class Classic->velious

No. Necros/Mages/Enchanters in Classic (although most players at the time didn't realize it about Enchanters) were by FAR the best, Bards and Druids could do some game-changing things too, and Monks were generally more damage than Rogues before the backstab buff as well.

Rogues really came into their own during Kunark, but still get outclassed by Charm in places where it can be reliably used, and Mages still do more damage in a lot of situations as well, particularly pre-Epic era of Kunark.

Rogues for Raid DPS in Velious are often the best, this is their most shining era (aside from Stealing during early Classic, which technically can be considered the most game-changing thing of all), but still inferior to Enchanters any time they can reliably use Charm.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. Necros/Mages/Enchanters in Classic (although most players at the time didn't realize it about Enchanters) were by FAR the best, Bards and Druids could do some game-changing things too, and Monks were generally more damage than Rogues before the backstab buff as well.

Rogues really came into their own during Kunark, but still get outclassed by Charm in places where it can be reliably used, and Mages still do more damage in a lot of situations as well, particularly pre-Epic era of Kunark.

Rogues for Raid DPS in Velious are often the best, this is their most shining era (aside from Stealing during early Classic, which technically can be considered the most game-changing thing of all), but still inferior to Enchanters any time they can reliably use Charm.

A hasted and geared rogue definitely does more DPS than a mage.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A hasted and geared rogue definitely does more DPS than a mage.

He said before epics in kunark in speific situations. certainly there is zero chance of a rogue out dpsing pure mana dumping mage. if not mana dumping, what kind of gear you talking? backstabbing water pet + 30 DPs per second clicky+ shielded tank+unslowed mobs = a lot of dps.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He said before epics in kunark in speific situations. certainly there is zero chance of a rogue out dpsing pure mana dumping mage. if not mana dumping, what kind of gear you talking? backstabbing water pet + 30 DPs per second clicky+ shielded tank+unslowed mobs = a lot of dps.

Oh sure if a mage is just nuking through their entire mana bar for that fight then good chance he will put dps a rogue. But I was speaking of more normal/realistic situations in a group where the mage is usually just sending pet in and maybe nuking once

[Bardp1999]

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[K-EAVKR]

Maybe we had bad enchanters back then too (early velious era). We had enchanters try to be cheeky and charm a massively overpowered mob in effort to speed up the raid but would constantly lose charm (bad player? resists? I have no idea) and make our raid twice as hard while it ping pongs around killing every one.

[TripSin]

Originally Posted by K-EAVKR [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe we had bad enchanters back then too (early velious era). We had enchanters try to be cheeky and charm a massively overpowered mob in effort to speed up the raid but would constantly lose charm (bad player? resists? I have no idea) and make our raid twice as hard while it ping pongs around killing every one.

Enchanters were not stacking CHA
Enchanters were using 56k dial up modems
Enchanters were playing on servers with 1999 technology and associated delay
Enchanters were not using GINA audio and text alerts
Enchanters were not using clickies to bypass GCD
Enchanters were not universally using J boots and Goblin rings
Enchanters did not have a wiki and game knowledge to tell them what the best charm mobs are and what to avoid trying to charm

All of this contributes to why the game is played differently now.

Anyways, it's always seemed silly to me, in any game, how people hitting things with a metal stick can even at all compete with people who command literal magic. Like, a mage simply casting diamond skin should render the metal stick guy impotent, no?

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by TripSin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyways, it's always seemed silly to me, in any game, how people hitting things with a metal stick can even at all compete with people who command literal magic. Like, a mage simply casting diamond skin should render the metal stick guy impotent, no?

Yeah but they swing that metal stick super hard.

[greenspectre]

My IRL friend joined p99 about 6 months in, and started fresh on a barb warrior. I thought he was insane, but he greatly enjoyed the challenge and I was more than happy to help him camp gear and complete his set of crafted. His gear mattered so much more than my shaman, who wore almost all banded with a combine spear until 35ish.

When we were raiding sky pre-kunark, he was happy to be one of the tanks for 4th island and told me "This is exactly why I made this character. Being this crucial piece of the raid."

Melee is just a different path. Melees rely on their friends more, but are also far more VALUABLE to their friends in return, as most groups need at least one solid tank. And as I played an SK to 90 on live, I can say that aggro management is FUN (yes I know non-classic and all but the concept is still the same). I enjoyed pulling aggro off my healers, rounding the mobs up and making sure my face was the one getting bashed in, not theirs.

I started a shaman when green launched and have enjoyed the change of pace from my melees-only run on live (Pal, bst, rng, sk) but I am really getting that itch to just smack things for damage...

[Wyclef31]

You're always gonna have your min/maxers who don't want to group with hybrids or melee in general. But also there's a lot of people like me who just want adventure and to do things differently. I'm not after xp or loot, just a good time, if I get the xp and loot that just makes it better.