Is Shaman the BEST all-around class in the game?

[Snaggles]

It’s pretty easy, don’t stack charisma gear. Or don’t debuff your pet. Or don’t give it -MR gear. Or just don’t charm stuff; the vendors still sell animations and the kunark one still drops.

Or just whine on the forums that your free nostalgia is only 95% accurate.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s pretty easy, don’t stack charisma gear. Or don’t debuff your pet. Or don’t give it -MR gear. Or just don’t charm stuff; the vendors still sell animations and the kunark one still drops.

The -MR part classic players might not have known.

But as for all the rest ... again, it's idiotic to think live Enchanterss didn't try casting the spells on their list, or didn't try wearing Charisma gear (when Verant themselves told them to).

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The -MR part classic players might not have known.

But as for all the rest ... again, it's idiotic to think live Enchanterss didn't try casting the spells on their list, or didn't try wearing Charisma gear (when Verant themselves told them to).

What makes you think I was talking about players 20 years ago? Only one person here is crying that charm lasts too long. I suggested that person not debuff the pet so charm breaks more frequently. Maybe I should put these protips in my forum signature.

[shovelquest]

We split the pond in MM up into 4 camps on live.

The logic about nerfing charm to emulate classic would be like saying we need to change all the spawn times in the game to be three times as long to emulate crowded zones.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But as for all the rest ... again, it's idiotic to think live Enchanterss didn't try casting the spells on their list, or didn't try wearing Charisma gear (when Verant themselves told them to).

They nerfed kiting, not charming on live: why?

Because nobody who played a enchanter knew how to charm/mez on live. It was a class never in any game ever before.

Mez? Wtf is mez? Nobody understood it. there were no timers, gaming was not even close to as hard core as it is now. Nobody ever played a game where you would "mez enemies while you kill the others" before.

My friend called me on the phone to tell me about this thing he saw, "this guy yelled TRAIN and then like a million gnolls came!"

This game was so new players didn't even know what a train was lol

Nobody would "time" mez and do data sheets on it for christ sake we were fighting with quested weapons from pre kunark for gods sake.

We were exploring. Adventuring. Being amazed at the first 3D open world fantasy game in history.

Aint nobody got time to min/max in a game when you would loose weeks worth of work from one death because EXP was so hard to get.

I cried. CRIED. when I lost my +7 charisma torch my necromancer used into his 20's!

Find one forum post about someone talking about charming from back then, you wont. Because nobody was on that level yet.

My static groups enchanter would chain AOE stun on bad pulls in lower guk!

It was like 5 years into p99 that charming became OP on these servers - because of TECMOS youtube tutorials.

Expecting keyboard turning, mostly kids, snail level APM gamers to manage charm (with no pet windows of any type) and mez, when they still had like 1 cloth item equipped at 50 is what's 'idiotic'.

If you were on the level of being in a guild where someone was able to use charm successfully, then you were like top 1% of everquest players. Im sorry but that's just a fact. And those people did not share info.

[Duik]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mez? Wtf is mez? Nobody understood it. there were no timers, gaming was not even close to as hard core as it is now. Nobody ever played a game where you would "mez enemies while you kill the others" before.

Our live chanter in our static IRL friends group fully understood the mez mechanic. War mnk rog clr enc wiz.
On a multi pull in LGuk (for example) Chanter would call the next target. War would taunt a few times before engaging. War only at first then after agro build monk and rog would join.
We werent in a large guild and didnt frequent the class boards, although the rog went to safehouse? near the end.
Wiz was finisher and evac. Stuns roots and snares as needed. Cleric was boxed by the monk player so didnt really cast much apart from IVU and buffage. No paci or stuns etc, would defo fail a boxing test here lmao.
Enc never charmed. He had cha prioritized but lack of mobs made our slow but safe exp method good enuf.
We would be chumps here and now though.

People knew things but chewing through mobs faster would have just been more of a waste (there wasnt any). Groups everywhere from BR, gargoyles to ass/sup pulling only a couple static mobs with the odd pather depending on where you were.
I dont know if our chanter would have charmed or not. He did chat with some Southern Armada guild peeps so maybe learnt something about it from them.
I think we thort comfortable XP was better than min/max.
I was pretty clueless. I had a flux staff and didnt use it to reset GCD. What the hell was that!
What a newb.

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enc never charmed. He had cha prioritized but lack of mobs made our slow but safe exp method good enuf.
We would be chumps here and now though..

This too, like there was no reason to go through mobs fast enough to make charm even necessary because of the crowding.

If anyone ever charmed anything Im sure someone would be like WTF are you doing! (hmm that reminds me I seem to remember even on p99 clerics getting bothered that I'd be charming in MM, before everyone and their mother had a level 60 enchanter on p99)

So like, yeah, charming even here wasn't nearly as popular as it is now for years.

In a time period where asking someone to help you get your corpse meant risking giving them all your items, I just dont see people going into dungeons and charming for so many reasons other than charm not being classic in its current form.

I'm confident that way less people were charming strictly because we just didn't know how to play that well.

I played on Rallos Zek, and you could charm players. I definitely charmed them with my level 12 enchanter.

Also fearing was so funny, that was the best. Fearing someone that was talking trash. Watching them just dart off in a random direction was the best. Especially if they were sitting because they just pop up and run [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But charming a mob, I have no memory of anyone doing that.

I think we thort comfortable XP was better than min/max.

At the time, I thought we were min/maxing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They nerfed kiting, not charming on live: why?

Because nobody who played a enchanter knew how to charm/mez on live. It was a class never in any game ever before.

I love the logic here: Verant didn't nerf Enchanters, so our emulator made decades later can't possibly have the wrong numbers for charm resists/channeling/etc. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It couldn't possibly be that Enchanters just weren't as powerful on live now could it ...

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If anyone ever charmed anything Im sure someone would be like WTF are you doing! (hmm that reminds me I seem to remember even on p99 clerics getting bothered that I'd be charming in MM, before everyone and their mother had a level 60 enchanter on p99)

So like, yeah, charming even here wasn't nearly as popular as it is now for years.

Again, that couldn't possibly be because charm actually was riskier on live, now could it?

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love the logic here: Verant didn't nerf Enchanters, so our emulator made decades later can't possibly have the wrong numbers for charm resists/channeling/etc. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, that isn't my logic.

My logic is that charming was so non-existent that it did not get hit with the nerf bat.

We were too busy kiting mobs thinking Druids were the most OP class.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, that couldn't possibly be because charm actually was riskier on live, now could it?

Of course I am saying it was riskier, but not because it had shorter durations.

It was riskier because if I died I lost a months worth of work. And pbobuly my corpse.

[loramin]

I feel like any response I give would just be going in circles, so I'll just say this: no Enchanter on this server need worry about my quest for more classic P99 Enchanters/charm.

For one thing, Nilbog has about a 0% chance of listening to me. I've been "whining" about wanting this to be more classic for years, and it has never changed a thing.

Heck, even when we have direct evidence that something needs fixing (eg. the channeling rate; go check the bug thread if you don't believe me), Nilbog hasn't addressed it ... although he hasn't addressed a lot of things lately, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

But even if he did suddenly decide tomorrow "Enchanters/charm should be more classic here" ... it's not going to wreck things. If Enchanters here solo 90% and group 10%, nothing Nilbog will ever do is going to change that back to live (where the ratio was much closer to 10%/90%). Maybe we'll get 15%/85% or 20%/80%.

At best, it will make the most OP class on the server a little bit more challenging to play ... and quite frankly "the powers that be nerfing the most powerful class" is, well, classic as fuck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Duik]

I recall selling some neg MR shoulders from blackburrow to someone after OOC asking why would anyone want neg MR to wear +5 str is good i spose but... Maybe they used it for pets. I didnt ask and they didnt say. They bought a few pairs too.