I hate this perma-camping shit

[eldub]

Originally Posted by Beldhar Stormstalker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zebuxoruk server,

...there was no calendar nor anything of the sort on Zeb. And the only true-FFA mob that I knew of was the (in)famous Lodizal. The rest usually were respected by camping rules - whoever was at the spot killing stuff had the rights to the named, which in theory is similar to what we have here right now.

The contested raid mobs were not FFA, they were "races" between guilds to see who could mobilize faster, buff up and engage. This was true for most of the open-area mobs, like the Kunark dragons, and some "dungeon/city" areas, like Vindi/Statue in Kael, and KT. The first guild to engage the mob had the claim, and should they fail, the other guild standing around had a shot.

Some other mobs were a bit more complicated. For example, Chardok Royals and the Coldain King. The guild that started clearing the way to the Named had the initial claim. Another guild could follow behind, without interfering on anything, in case the initial guild wiped, but that usually was not the case. If someone was clearing down to Royals, other folks usually let them be and moved on.

And in the case of the then-available planes, if there was a weaker guild farming trash in Hate, or Growth, for armor drops, and suddenly Inno/Tunare popped, it was frequent that stronger guilds would show up to attempt the named, but they'd leave the small guys alone and either assist them with clearing (if necessary) and handing over loot, but only after talking to that guild's leadership, and not leapfrogging/training the shiznit out of them. Whoever can engage first, gets the first shot.

It wasn't perfect back then, but it seemed to work... obviously, there was "cockblocking" of higher end mobs, with the top guild on the server having certain targets locked down (Emperor Ssra, for instance, was only killed by a second guild after Planes of Power came out), but the whole cockblocking/drama seems to be part of the EverQuest experience.

[Wrei]

Originally Posted by Starklen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are discounting the fact that even groups of people that dislike each other are able to function in some sort of 'free' system when facing the right set of incentives and disincentives. I've already observed small amounts of reciprocity under the current regime of rules. For example, I've witnessed both DA and IB zoning out for one another during Vox engagements to try and reduce zone lag for the opposing raid. While your perception of how much people dislike each other around here is probably true, I don't feel like it is the likely case that an FFA system necessarily leads to the anarchy or set of problems you suggest. Even enemies will try to agree to or respect some minimum standard of conduct if nothing more than to maximize their own utilities. You see examples of this out in the world all the time.

This....

For all the people that feels entitled to everything on the server: People who clock more mileage gets more stuff just like in RL. You may feel entitled to get a million bucks in RL but your not gonna get it unless you do something about it. It's really not that hard to understand.

To the GM/Dev Team: I still feel extremely grateful this project was started up despite all the drama happening at the moment. That said however, what are you guys really afraid of if you let the server run as a free market? Trains? KS? Sure there will be a shit ton of whine about it for the parties involved but at the end of the day server will go on. A balance will finally be achieved one way or another WITHOUT your guiding hand on the matter.

The raiding game only affects a small part of the community (just like it was on live). I dare say that average joe leveling up in oasis will not get affected by the shitstorm happening in vox's lair with 3 guilds trying to outdps each other. We don't know how a free market system will be without even trying it.

You keep telling us to grow up and fix our problems, that your too busy to deal with this kind of childish issues. Yet you guys were the ones that decided that you will take an active hand on these issues when you enforced the first rotation between IB and Trans. Look at what's happened since then.

IB beats Trans consistently on boss. Trans petitions that this sucks and we want stuff too. Gm LISTENS (key part) sets PRECEDENT (another key part) to do something about it. Right then and there you could have easily said : "Is this a bug? Did the server crash? Sorry not my problem.. we're busy with game coding stuff not what you can raid."

From that point on, everyone knew that if you send enough petitions/mail to the GM staff that something WILL happen to the issue.

1. Trans losing = rotation

2. 3rd guild wanting to get in on rotation + IB whining about more guilds on rotation = Time variance

3. Inny ganked by X guild = petition by other guild to get something done on the matter.

4. Have a problem? Petition....

5. Camping sucks? Petition....

Seriously, we're not all savages. Sure there's always going to be genuine little dipshits (just like in RL), but for the most part I don't think the p99 world will end in a pile of shit (in a free system). Compromises are born out of respect, right now there is none between the guilds that are feuding over this matter. Let it go free for a month or two and see how bad things will get. You may be surprised at the result.

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This....

For all the people that feels entitled to everything on the server: People who clock more mileage gets more stuff just like in RL. You may feel entitled to get a million bucks in RL but your not gonna get it unless you do something about it. It's really not that hard to understand.

Not true. There are some people that "clock more mileage" and see nothing in return for their efforts. That is the REAL WORLD...this IS A FUCKING GAME. You are forced to deal with RL, people play Everquest for ENJOYMENT. That is possibly why you fail to grasp the reality of the problem.

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To the GM/Dev Team: I still feel extremely grateful this project was started up despite all the drama happening at the moment. That said however, what are you guys really afraid of if you let the server run as a free market? Trains? KS? Sure there will be a shit ton of whine about it for the parties involved but at the end of the day server will go on. A balance will finally be achieved one way or another WITHOUT your guiding hand on the matter.

Right on man..because Anarchy without any final authority seems to have worked well in the past. You are either to young or too stupid to understand the amount of drama/problems that would infect P1999.

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raiding game only affects a small part of the community (just like it was on live). I dare say that average joe leveling up in oasis will not get affected by the shitstorm happening in vox's lair with 3 guilds trying to outdps each other. We don't know how a free market system will be without even trying it.

Are you half-asleep? EVERYONE makes it to 50 at some point. After that the only thing left is to RAID! People are not leveling up just to stand back and spectate the end-game content. They want to participate and be involved. Thus why you have guilds and social networks of players.

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep telling us to grow up and fix our problems, that your too busy to deal with this kind of childish issues. Yet you guys were the ones that decided that you will take an active hand on these issues when you enforced the first rotation between IB and Trans. Look at what's happened since then.

Seems to me that when the rotation was in place the only ones complaining was IB. Due to their GREED. The server was quite restive and having other guilds added to that rotation was sure to bring stability for a long time. While i did not agree with the execute of the rotation i felt that it offered stability. Something we do not have now.

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB beats Trans consistently on boss. Trans petitions that this sucks and we want stuff too. Gm LISTENS (key part) sets PRECEDENT (another key part) to do something about it. Right then and there you could have easily said : "Is this a bug? Did the server crash? Sorry not my problem.. we're busy with game coding stuff not what you can raid."

Lets rephrase...IB wants to dominate the server and take everything for themselves. Trans does not want to spend all their time trying to dominate 10 year old content they want to just play the game and get along.

You forget the fundamental reasons why p1999 was even created to start with. It was not created for IB it was created to relive the classic Everquest experience.

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From that point on, everyone knew that if you send enough petitions/mail to the GM staff that something WILL happen to the issue.

1. Trans losing = rotation

2. 3rd guild wanting to get in on rotation + IB whining about more guilds on rotation = Time variance

3. Inny ganked by X guild = petition by other guild to get something done on the matter.

4. Have a problem? Petition....

5. Camping sucks? Petition....

Seriously, we're not all savages. Sure there's always going to be genuine little dipshits (just like in RL), but for the most part I don't think the p99 world will end in a pile of shit (in a free system). Compromises are born out of respect, right now there is none between the guilds that are feuding over this matter. Let it go free for a month or two and see how bad things will get. You may be surprised at the result.

You got this huge chip on your shoulder. That somehow Trans or the server is out to get you. The server population wants IB to see that a place that you work with one another is better served than by leaving up someone FD in PoH/PoF/Naggy Lair/Vox with MQ2 running to send out text notification when a boss spawns.

Just keep going with what your doing. I have seen the DA roster it is full of old Trans people. People that decided they wanted to fight it out instead of "going casual". I applaud it and i wish i had more time to help but i dont.

Until you change your attitude it will continue.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Hi. I'm one of the IB trackers. I'm a druid. I've been bound in Plane of Fear since January 29, the day I joined IB. I also track SolB (I like upper bats) and Vox (I hide by scryer since the trains started). MQ2 would be kind of pointless, don't you think?

Good job looking like an asshole for accusing players who play druids of using hack software to... track. Could you go back to trolling VZ/TZ instead? I'm sure they'd like to read you say "10 year old content" over and over in every post.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not true. There are some people that "clock more mileage" and see nothing in return for their efforts.

It happens. Not everything is, nor deserves to be fair. Effort is relative.
Next you'll cite this:

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is the REAL WORLD...this IS A FUCKING GAME.

Just because it is over pixels does not render the previous argument of effort invalid.

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are forced to deal with RL, people play Everquest for ENJOYMENT.

You are forced to 'deal' with any hobby you choose to partake of.
If you are not enjoying yourself in your hobby, perhaps you should re-evaluate your continued participation within said hobby. Just because you are not receiving as much ENJOYMENT as you would desire from it does not necessarily mean others are experiencing an identical deprivation of ENJOYMENT. If this were the case then we would all live happily ever after on Project1999 like furry fucking carebears. We would also cease to partake in the human condition.

You knew how competitive EverQuest was on live, and what it entailed and meant to raid. Project1999 is a community of people formed from those who enjoyed classic EverQuest. It is ludicrous to assume that competition would be any -less- here simply because "OMG it is an emulated server of an eleven year old game". The higher concentration of raiders Project1999 has is a reflection of that more than anything -- people want to experience that content again including any associated competition. Sorry if you didn't see it coming, but many of us that started playing here did, and many even relish the thought of doing it all again.

Maybe it's because we all played on different servers. To claim: SONY enforced a rotation! SONY wanted FFA! SONY wanted X! Is bullshit. SONY wanted money. It's what companies do. SONY did whatever the vast majority community agreed and accepted to do on a server by server basis -- JUST LIKE GMS HERE OMFG!

Not everyone wants a rotation.
Not everyone wants FFA.
Compromise instead of repeatedly saying "A CALENDAR WITH A ROTATION IS THE ONLY SOLUTION"
That is possibly why you fail to grasp the reality of the problem.

[Wrei]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not true. There are some people that "clock more mileage" and see nothing in return for their efforts. That is the REAL WORLD...this IS A FUCKING GAME. You are forced to deal with RL, people play Everquest for ENJOYMENT. That is possibly why you fail to grasp the reality of the problem.

Right so, why not just have a button that pumps out every loot in the game? I mean seriously, everyone is ENTITLED to get their ENJOYMENT. Why do we even bother raiding? Seriously we should just get whatever we want, when we want no?

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right on man..because Anarchy without any final authority seems to have worked well in the past. You are either to young or too stupid to understand the amount of drama/problems that would infect P1999.

I realize everyone's Live experience has been different on various server. I assure you however that there has been servers that managed just fine WITHOUT GM interference... You are either too stubborn or ignorant to base an opinion on something that hasn't even been tried yet on this community.

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you half-asleep? EVERYONE makes it to 50 at some point. After that the only thing left is to RAID! People are not leveling up just to stand back and spectate the end-game content. They want to participate and be involved. Thus why you have guilds and social networks of players.

Right, cause on live you had 40 guilds competing for the mobs right? This may be a shock to you but there are people who play the game and still enjoy without raiding. Whether it's trade skilling or accumulating virtual wealth via farming. Not everything is about killing smelly dragons. Do you even realize why EQ died? Because it based its model catering to the smallest player base, the hardcore gamer. It pumped out expansion after expansion and introduce new bosses to kill to satisfy its raiders. When in reality the majority of the gamers (the casuals) only played EQ because it was the only game at the time (for an MMO). WoW came in to cater the casuals and look what happened, over 10million accounts compared to what now? I'll say 250K and be generous. Even if everyone on the server hits 50, you are NOT going to see 50 different raiding guilds. So yeah it will be a lot smaller than what your describing.

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems to me that when the rotation was in place the only ones complaining was IB. Due to their GREED. The server was quite restive and having other guilds added to that rotation was sure to bring stability for a long time. While i did not agree with the execute of the rotation i felt that it offered stability. Something we do not have now.

Yeah, cause the other guilds wanting their shot at bosses is our greed as well. Fixed rotation (old system) is such a short sighted system it's not even funny. So what you get to kill 1 boss every 2months eventually? What about key mobs? Maybe a guild will get to see VP by the time we're halfway through Velious release then.. If everyone manned up and stopped crying and mobilized instead of this "campfest" there would be stability once again. As EVERY guild would have a shot at any boss.

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets rephrase...IB wants to dominate the server and take everything for themselves. Trans does not want to spend all their time trying to dominate 10 year old content they want to just play the game and get along.

IB wants to compete and raid against other guilds... not like our MO is different than any other raiding guild here. No offense but that's not what you were saying back then, i find it funny that you keep going back to the 10 year old argument. If your not playing the raiding game then why bother giving your 2 cents?

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You forget the fundamental reasons why p1999 was even created to start with. It was not created for IB it was created to relive the classic Everquest experience.

You forgot a fundamental reason as well, EQ Classic experience was about competition in the raiding game. Seriously, we had guilds cockblocking each other on key mobs to insure their dominance within their tier content. Do I think it's fair? Perhaps not but that's what the game was in Classic and that's how it should be here. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if there was more content at hand when guilds can move on to the next stage. Accuse us of greed the day you see IB killing a boss to prevent another guild from getting the boss (when we don't need it). We've moved on from Maestro, we'll move on from more as more stuff pops in.

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You got this huge chip on your shoulder. That somehow Trans or the server is out to get you. The server population wants IB to see that a place that you work with one another is better served than by leaving up someone FD in PoH/PoF/Naggy Lair/Vox with MQ2 running to send out text notification when a boss spawns.

Wow seriously...this baseless accusation is just retarded. I couldn't believe the stupid shit Trans was saying about us back then (SEQ,MQ,Hacking,GM favoritism) but once people joined us they realized we're just a raiding guild. If you still have doubts ask your ex trans guildies that joined us at the end. It may be hard to believe but we're not the cheating sketchbags you think we are.

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just keep going with what your doing. I have seen the DA roster it is full of old Trans people. People that decided they wanted to fight it out instead of "going casual". I applaud it and i wish i had more time to help but i dont.

I'm sure you can help out by getting a tag and sitting AFK for days on end. It's not that much of a commitment.

[nicemace]

Originally Posted by Stepy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"i dunno about you guys. but last night i just rolled into guk, lord was open, lord was up (no yak), killed him, cleared room, cleared hall, PH spawned, killed him, cleared hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, clear room, clear hall, lord spawns, yak in hand, kill him, leave guk."

You were a very lucky soul then i guess, not to doubt you but who is your toon, anyone can come on here and post a zone is not perma-camped story.

My char is Ustulius, im not trying to be anon or anything, GM's wont let me have my name.

Lucky on the yaks, yeah... lucky on the camps? nah. ive been down there plenty when shit isnt camped.

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right so, why not just have a button that pumps out every loot in the game? I mean seriously, everyone is ENTITLED to get their ENJOYMENT. Why do we even bother raiding? Seriously we should just get whatever we want, when we want no?



I realize everyone's Live experience has been different on various server. I assure you however that there has been servers that managed just fine WITHOUT GM interference... You are either too stubborn or ignorant to base an opinion on something that hasn't even been tried yet on this community.



Right, cause on live you had 40 guilds competing for the mobs right? This may be a shock to you but there are people who play the game and still enjoy without raiding. Whether it's trade skilling or accumulating virtual wealth via farming. Not everything is about killing smelly dragons. Do you even realize why EQ died? Because it based its model catering to the smallest player base, the hardcore gamer. It pumped out expansion after expansion and introduce new bosses to kill to satisfy its raiders. When in reality the majority of the gamers (the casuals) only played EQ because it was the only game at the time (for an MMO). WoW came in to cater the casuals and look what happened, over 10million accounts compared to what now? I'll say 250K and be generous. Even if everyone on the server hits 50, you are NOT going to see 50 different raiding guilds. So yeah it will be a lot smaller than what your describing.



Yeah, cause the other guilds wanting their shot at bosses is our greed as well. Fixed rotation (old system) is such a short sighted system it's not even funny. So what you get to kill 1 boss every 2months eventually? What about key mobs? Maybe a guild will get to see VP by the time we're halfway through Velious release then.. If everyone manned up and stopped crying and mobilized instead of this "campfest" there would be stability once again. As EVERY guild would have a shot at any boss.



IB wants to compete and raid against other guilds... not like our MO is different than any other raiding guild here. No offense but that's not what you were saying back then, i find it funny that you keep going back to the 10 year old argument. If your not playing the raiding game then why bother giving your 2 cents?



You forgot a fundamental reason as well, EQ Classic experience was about competition in the raiding game. Seriously, we had guilds cockblocking each other on key mobs to insure their dominance within their tier content. Do I think it's fair? Perhaps not but that's what the game was in Classic and that's how it should be here. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if there was more content at hand when guilds can move on to the next stage. Accuse us of greed the day you see IB killing a boss to prevent another guild from getting the boss (when we don't need it). We've moved on from Maestro, we'll move on from more as more stuff pops in.



Wow seriously...this baseless accusation is just retarded. I couldn't believe the stupid shit Trans was saying about us back then (SEQ,MQ,Hacking,GM favoritism) but once people joined us they realized we're just a raiding guild. If you still have doubts ask your ex trans guildies that joined us at the end. It may be hard to believe but we're not the cheating sketchbags you think we are.


I'm sure you can help out by getting a tag and sitting AFK for days on end. It's not that much of a commitment.

Yet if you remember...the rotation while unpopular definitely was LESS drama and bullshit than what it going on right now...

You can try and spin my responses to detract from what you originally stated but the fact remains. The current state of affairs is much worse than a GM enforced rotation. While you think that "entitlement" means first come first serve there is a a lot of people that feel it is just a game that we play for enjoyment and want to have the same chance. By chance you claim "then compete" racing is classic etc etc. We state that we are no longer kids/students that can skip class for a raid content.

Thus is the things that Transcendence is now. Not because you are better or more skilled. But because we have to make a choice. I choose to not play on P1999 because i see that with all the greed and selfishness there will never be a system that is fair to all.

[Omnimorph]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet if you remember...the rotation while unpopular definitely was LESS drama and bullshit than what it going on right now...

You can try and spin my responses to detract from what you originally stated but the fact remains. The current state of affairs is much worse than a GM enforced rotation. While you think that "entitlement" means first come first serve there is a a lot of people that feel it is just a game that we play for enjoyment and want to have the same chance. By chance you claim "then compete" racing is classic etc etc. We state that we are no longer kids/students that can skip class for a raid content.

Thus is the things that Transcendence is now. Not because you are better or more skilled. But because we have to make a choice. I choose to not play on P1999 because i see that with all the greed and selfishness there will never be a system that is fair to all.

T'is the nature of MMOs unfortunately, if you can't play hardcore and want content that people who can play hardcore want, then they're going to get it and you're not. That's why they introduced instancing. So everyone could experience the content not just the hardcore player.

[Taxi]

Ive thought about it this morning, and i dont think this server is ready to deal with people passing spectres through docks and then zoning after. I would be, but im betting 90% of the server isnt ready to deal with that kind of stuff. It would probably kill the server. All it takes is 5 dedicated people who get their enjoyment solely from griefing. Again, i would enjoy that kind of on-your-toes-all-the-time gameplay but its not for everyone. If people bitch about how they are entitled to their camps, theyre never going to go for this.