Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by timhutton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In his previous post, Nilbog mentioned that the pathing changes have been fixed for over a month now and he has not heard any news from players in regards to poor pathing. TMO is the only guild that spends a considerable amount of time in the zone, and it would appear they have no incentive to report buggy pathing (since they use it to aid their training of others or pull dragons).

It's more probable that they didn't even notice any changes, considering IB and TMO both reported the bad pathing from the start.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's more probable that they didn't even notice any changes, considering IB and TMO both reported the bad pathing from the start.

I disagree but anyway that isn't my point, so let's not detract too far from it.

The players need to know what information they can gather, or what kind of things they can do to more quickly help the dev's fix the pathing problems and nobody is going to want to zone into VP under fear of being trained to poke around and look for issues.

The fact things were "fixed" a month ago, and the devs/gms have not received any comments that things are still broken is alarming.

It has been 2 years, what can we do to help?

P.s. this question is directed straight at devs/gms not players.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see VP pathing being discussed. Without getting into the whole point of this thread..

Pathing was updated for VP last patch by our new pathing developer. When discussing the path file .. are you guys talking about current pathing, or pathing since VP was released? It's been changed for little under a month now with no reports.

Nilbog does not state that pathing in VP was fixed, doesn't even hint to it. He said it was updated, doesn't mention how much of an update or anything.

If you didn't want someone to respond to a particular part of your post and detract from your "point" perhaps you should have removed it. You can speculate all you want on the reason why things are and I can freely correct you on it.

The devs aren't just going to come here and answer every question you have either, they have shit to do. Players need to understand realistically how they can help. If you have skills that could be useful, make it known. There are obvious channels on how to go about donating your time and applying to help.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nilbog does not state that pathing in VP was fixed, doesn't even hint to it. He said it was updated, doesn't mention how much of an update or anything.

If you didn't want someone to respond to a particular part of your post and detract from your "point" perhaps you should have removed it. You can speculate all you want on the reason why things are and I can freely correct you on it.

The devs aren't just going to come here and answer every question you have either, they have shit to do. Players need to understand realistically how they can help. If you have skills that could be useful, make it known. There are obvious channels on how to go about donating your time and applying to help.

So pathing being updated != fixing pathing in your mind? Interesting.. I guess they were making it worse for some reason?

Anyway, I'm not removing my statement because it's valid to my point. It would appear TMO does not want training to go away. Training going away is partially reliant on pathing being fixed.

Therefore one can surmise that TMO has no urgent need to report broken pathing and get it fixed. This notion is further by Nilbog saying that he has not heard anything in the month since the "non-fixes" (or however you wish to refer to them) went in.

You can make any excuse you want, however winking when a lead-gm describes pathing exploits and hinting that you know of them (yet I doubt you or anyone in TMO has reported them) doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your caring to see them fixed.

So again, the players need to know what they can do to help this situation, and those players are most likely going to need to be someone that is not in TMO. I'm sure FE and other guilds have many anxious people willing to help fix and report on VP pathing, they just need to be told what to do.

Edit: They also need to be allowed in the zone to mess around without threat of being instantly killed if they're trying to better the server.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah, good deal then.

If the pathing is much better and the aggro mechanics are decent, I'd say that you guys could definitely push that issue off the table. Still have to get the GMs to want to pick up the petitions from that zone (trains will still happen on contested mobs due to racing/pulling down hallways, limited pull spots, etc), but shouldn't be much worse than contested CTs/VSs/Innys (Well, VS probably doesn't get raced to like before).

Well why not try one night where deliberate training isn't allowed and see how things go.

I'm sure there will be sneaky and devious acts from those that want to see it fail, but surely enough information could be garnered with the numerous fraps available and the GM's watching over things to possibly come to a re-evaluation of the current ruleset one way or the other.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by timhutton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So pathing being updated != fixing pathing in your mind? Interesting.. I guess they were making it worse for some reason?

Anyway, I'm not removing my statement because it's valid to my point. It would appear TMO does not want training to go away. Training going away is partially reliant on pathing being fixed.

Therefore one can surmise that TMO has no urgent need to report broken pathing and get it fixed. This notion is further by Nilbog saying that he has not heard anything in the month since the "non-fixes" (or however you wish to refer to them) went in.

You can make any excuse you want, however winking when a lead-gm describes pathing exploits and hinting that you know of them (yet I doubt you or anyone in TMO has reported them) doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your caring to see them fixed.

So again, the players need to know what they can do to help this situation, and those players are most likely going to need to be someone that is not in TMO. I'm sure FE and other guilds have many anxious people willing to help fix and report on VP pathing, they just need to be told what to do.

Edit: They also need to be allowed in the zone to mess around without threat of being instantly killed if they're trying to better the server.

Updated and Fixed are still two different things. Updated means it's simply changed and hopefully for the better, fixed means it's finished and at a desired and completely functioning state.

Again, pathing issues were reported on Day 1. Pathing is still nearly as horrid was it was then, as stated by Sirken.

As far as people not reporting it from inside TMO, I've already stated that they have (I know for a fact Perun posted a thread about it and several members of both guilds, IB and TMO, commented on it).

On a side note, it doesn't take any outside players to check the pathing in VP. After pathing updates, any GM/Guide/Dev could go into vp and test the updates.

It's quite clear you are commenting from a point of view that is severely lacking knowledge of the server and it's history.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well why not try one night where deliberate training isn't allowed and see how things go.

I'm sure there will be sneaky and devious acts from those that want to see it fail, but surely enough information could be garnered with the numerous fraps available and the GM's watching over things to possibly come to a re-evaluation of the current ruleset one way or the other.

Lead GM stated he's looked at the pathing and stated that people should work it out themselves. CSR does not want to deal with the fraps and petitions that VP would bring. Maybe you guys could get them to push for 2 more guides to just watch VP raids, but I still think the best choice would be to push removing variance in VP to allow the nonTMOs to set up scheduled VP raids.

[MaksimMazor]

Originally Posted by Shinko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its fucking bad, TMO still avoids my trains from fake walls and other means

Lol or simply invis'ing oneself

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lead GM stated he's looked at the pathing and stated that people should work it out themselves. CSR does not want to deal with the fraps and petitions that VP would bring. Maybe you guys could get them to push for 2 more guides to just watch VP raids, but I still think the best choice would be to push removing variance in VP to allow the nonTMOs to set up scheduled VP raids.

Removing variance in VP actually seems like an interesting idea, but I'd still much rather have no training. Training in VP isn't classic. I guess variance isn't either but I'm sure a lot more people would want to zone into VP if training wasn't allowed regardless of variance.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Removing variance in VP actually seems like an interesting idea, but I'd still much rather have no training. Training in VP isn't classic. I guess variance isn't either but I'm sure a lot more people would want to zone into VP if training wasn't allowed regardless of variance.

Being able to plan ahead and set a date/time for regulars to participate would definitely help combat the trains. Instead of having to deal with getting people on in a split second to race dragons, you'd then be able to focus on strategy and have reliability in people being able to attend.

It's not exactly what you want, but it is something that doesn't require TMO's "permission" and is something that benefits everyone equally (but more so people not in TMO).

I'd imagine a good bit of old raiders would probably be willing to come back a couple times per week just to mess with TMO if they knew when those dragons would pop as well... so there is that lol.

EDIT: Reason I think they would remove variance (with so many obviously interested in VP) is due to variance being put in to solve Poopsocks and considering training solves poopsocks automatically, there is no need for variance in VP. Removing variance would remove one large hurdle for casuals and entice some of the hardcore guys with scores to settle to come back.