AC issues are starting to be really problematic.

[pasi]

There's also a huge drop off as most raid NPCs go from 66-70 warriors from 60-65 casters.

With that said, monks with Wu/Wu + Avatar Buff aren't very far off from being at maximum-geared Velious damage (or at least until Garrath). It's not like there's tons of aura of battle stuff available, so actual gear doesn't matter outside of weapons. Yes, avatar for everyone is a modest gain, but it was never required to do some damage.

How big of a gain do you think 100 ATK is supposed to be if you think primals are a requirement?

[Shiftin]

a couple months is generous, i literally reread their updates today.

it's fun arguing "i remember it this way, i remember it that way" with you (no, it is not), but does anyone have actual parses we can run comps against? I am happy to do the work on that, but I need a baseline other than "yeah, i should do more than 70 DPS"

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How big of a gain do you think 100 ATK is supposed to be if you think primals are a requirement?

pure +ATK makes a pretty big difference in my parses currently. That's why i always go VoG.

[pasi]

Big difference, yes.

We're talking about 'useless' versus 'useful' here, I'm asking what the perceived figure is on 600ish AC mobs.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Two slots for Avatar?

Primal Avatar + Avatar, obviously. Everyone and their brother plays shaman on this server anyway. So worst case all of your rogues have Avatar.

Originally Posted by Treats

Primal's should be a requirement to North Temple of Veeshan, if it is not something is wrong.

Just crazy imo. I mean how much do you expect Avatar to increase damage for PCs that are already strength capped? 20%? 30%? 50%?

edit: just to be clear, I don't think PCs are doing too little damage. Sure there is always some rogue clown in VP who does 125-150 dps, but those are the guys that a) had avatar b) hit disc and c) got lucky with backstab. The last two are obviously not sustainable for a 5 minute fight. I guess that without avatar/disc a rogue would average 85ish in VP, maybe even less.

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Primal Avatar + Avatar, obviously. Everyone and their brother plays shaman on this server anyway. So worst case all of your rogues have Avatar.

I don't remember them stacking and can't seem to find anything supporting them stacking.

AFAIK: The purpose of primal avatar was to remove the emerald cost. If you got primal weapons, casted avatar/primal avatar don't serve much of a purpose on PCs until you start pushing beyond 150 worn attack - I don't believe that is possible until Luclin (casted avatar doesn't count toward the atk cap, procced avatar does).

[Splorf22]

I just mean each shaman can avatar two melee, reducing the need for primal weapons

[Treats]

Avatar is not a huge increase for one person in a raid setting.

The increase comes from most of the melee in your raid force having it.

Do whatever I guess, I don't play here anymore anyway.

Look at Tigole's parse on the TF in Plane of Growth.

Going from VP to NToV is a fucking joke.

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Avatar is not a huge increase for one person in a raid setting.

The increase comes from most of the melee in your raid force having it.

Do whatever I guess, I don't play here anymore anyway.

Look at Tigole's parse on the TF in Plane of Growth.

Going from VP to NToV is a fucking joke.

I'm just trying to make the point that even if 100 ATK is a 50% increase in damage on higher AC mobs (which is an unreasonably high number that I'm using for the sake of argument), you could just bring 3 non-avatared rogues to make up for 2 avatared rogues.

No doubt on the net effect of multiple primals to overall DPS. This just isn't an era where there are number caps and/or enrage timers.

[Splorf22]

Where did you find the log, Treats? I'd be curious to take a look.

edit: http://www.legacyofsteel.net/Archives/Post/2001-06-16 hehehe

[Fysts]

Don't warriors have a 5 percent mitigation bonus over other plate classes. I am pretty sure this was one of their class bonuses. I remember on live you would strive for around 1300 ac on a warrior then you would go full hps. I also remember on live without defensive monks in velious gear out tanked every class, including warriors. This was because mobs missed more when attacking them, seems it wasn't just how hard mobs hit on live, but the fact they landed more of their swings compared to in kunark era.