The legality of vigilantism is fundamentally flawed

[entruil]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The death penalty has been a cornerstone of civilization. Societies didn't always have the excess resources to waste on deveneracy that we do now. People came together in common interest and ostracized those who chose not to participate and eliminated those who chose to disrupt.

What it comes down to is this, given the same circumstances some people (be they a minority) choose not to engage in criminality and rather do well for themselves. Society needs more of those people. The fact that they exist suggest behavior is not shaped solely by environment and in turn suggests there is something fundamentally wrong with people who do commit crime or do poorly.

It's not their fault, but it is their nature. Society does not need those people and it is an injustice to mankind to expend resources on them or allow them to proliferate. It is as much a disservice to them and their heirs as it is to society to allow them and their lineage to endure in a state of perpetual misery simply to placate one's own sense of moral fitness.

i can dig it... but i believe the test results are skewed...

too much of the lens is focused on the least able/willing while the upper caste lives with impunity... while you may be correct in an objective manner... the environment created to breed the nature out of people creates a subjective control...

if any of you can figure out what i just typed i would appreciate knowing what it means... pretty sure it might mean something... might be something about the paint chips i just consumed...

*just to clarify i am not trying to make fun... literally just me tryin to understand

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sigmund Freud..
Didn't he like go crazy or something?
I'll stick to Carl Jung, ...well lesser of two crazy people [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is that in response to my post? You'll have to expand ^^ I'm not familiar either either except what has been cited here occasionally of their esoteric conjectures on the mind with regard to sex.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is that in response to my post? You'll have to expand ^^ I'm not familiar either either except what has been cited here occasionally of their esoteric conjectures on the mind with regard to sex.

Yeah, though I thought you were aware. It's ok, lots aren't aware of the source from what they are told or pick up. Um Freud was more about as you put it, not their fault, just passed from the parents (good story if you like to electrocute it out of them hehehe). Jung was about upbringing, environment etc.
Me, I take Freud, turn it upside down, and slap a Jung bumpersticker on the rear end. Everyone can potentially be as bad as [insert worst person you can think of here], and then be cast onto the lord of the flies island and make it at least a few days before initiating scorched earth.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, though I thought you were aware. It's ok, lots aren't aware of the source from what they are told or pick up. Um Freud was more about as you put it, not their fault, just passed from the parents (good story if you like to electrocute it out of them hehehe). Jung was about upbringing, environment etc.
Me, I take Freud, turn it upside down, and slap a Jung bumpersticker on the rear end. Everyone can potentially be as bad as [insert worst person you can think of here], and then be cast onto the lord of the flies island and make it at least a few days before initiating scorched earth.

Oh, that part. No, I wasn't told that, it's my own conclusion and I am happy to elaborate ^^ I say it's not their fault because disparate outcomes given similar environments suggest to me a genetic component. There are reasons we behave as we do beyond upbringing we are no more the same in personality than we are in mental or physical prowess. I don't fault criminals for being criminals anymore than I fault autists for their autism. Nature does not endow us all with the same gifts or shortcomings. Ultimately we all have choices to make, but some of us are prone to destructive behavior more than others. Society is better off without those.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure I follow you here :/ Are you suggesting criminals wouldn't willingly choose execution over a lost hand? You are probably right for most, but that is because they are depraved. I am simply laying the case that capital punishment is infinitely superior and in no way analogous (finally learned how to fucking spell that!) to the backwards barbarism of Sharia law.

Killing criminals is the rational thing to do
It is the just thing to do
It is the compassionate thing to do

How can it not be the right thing to do?

Sharia has nothing to do with it. Your basis was that there is an inherent sense of shame in the criminal and that they would rather be put to death due to their shame. If they don't have a sense of shame, which you shouldn't because it isn't 1500's puritanical law anymore, then how could they feel shame that they would need liberation from via death. Get modern with your thoughts on this, research behaviorism, research profitability within criminal justice, research criminal justice reform, and weigh Santa's reform argument while comparing it to how and why criminal justice is applied.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, that part. No, I wasn't told that, it's my own conclusion and I am happy to elaborate ^^ I say it's not their fault because disparate outcomes given similar environments suggest to me a genetic component. There are reasons we behave as we do beyond upbringing we are no more the same in personality than we are in mental or physical prowess. I don't fault criminals for being criminals anymore than I fault autists for their autism. Nature does not endow us all with the same gifts or shortcomings. Ultimately we all have choices to make, but some of us are prone to destructive behavior more than others. Society is better off without those.

Yeah, that's Freud. It's what they teach in school from early on, in most everything as a shaped perspective from their lessons. Like taking history class, you are likely getting the lecture from a freudian perspective. All the teachers are taught Freud psychology in college as part of their child psychology courses. So you start on it early, to mold your reasoning and perspectives.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, that's Freud. It's what they teach in school from early on, in most everything as a shaped perspective from their lessons. Like taking history class, you are likely getting the lecture from a freudian perspective. All the teachers are taught Freud psychology in college as part of their child psychology courses. So you start on it early, to mold your reasoning and perspectives.

Freud is only taught as a historical point. His psychology is vastly invalid and not practiced. There's also a literary criticism based on Freud, but it's just a method of analyzing a work and not valid in projecting onto a greater public debate.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Freud is only taught as a historical point. His psychology is vastly invalid and not practiced. There's also a literary criticism based on Freud, but it's just a method of analyzing a work and not valid in projecting onto a greater public debate.

No it's everywhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/we...ohen.html?_r=0
You are only talking about the expensive liberal universities as of recent. Whatever the latest craze there is I guess. Back down on the ground it's everywhere.

You know, because this is about developing reasoning skills etc. As not everyone can afford to stay in college all their life, well teachers etc were traind decades ago and in charge of schools etc. Anywal, a lot of people are still effected by it, part of their thing. Maybe soon enough we'll get UN or FEMA re-education camps opened to teach us the latest pile of horse sh^t to make us even more crazy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, that's Freud. It's what they teach in school from early on, in most everything as a shaped perspective from their lessons. Like taking history class, you are likely getting the lecture from a freudian perspective. All the teachers are taught Freud psychology in college as part of their child psychology courses. So you start on it early, to mold your reasoning and perspectives.

No, I get where you are coming from Day and where you want to go with it, but my thoughts on this isn't a product of some Freudian indoctrination. I am very much a proponent of individual responsibility, but it is painfully evident (and has become more so as I have aged) that some people are simply more destructive than others even as infants. I don't see how you can attribute all of human behavior to environment most especially when you see different results given the same or similar circumstances :/

How do you account for different outcomes given the same or similar circumstances?

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sharia has nothing to do with it. Your basis was that there is an inherent sense of shame in the criminal and that they would rather be put to death due to their shame. If they don't have a sense of shame, which you shouldn't because it isn't 1500's puritanical law anymore, then how could they feel shame that they would need liberation from via death. Get modern with your thoughts on this, research behaviorism, research profitability within criminal justice, research criminal justice reform, and weigh Santa's reform argument while comparing it to how and why criminal justice is applied.

Jarn suggested some of us were closer to Sharia shortly after my post, so that is how it ties in ^^ As for feeling ashamed of crime, they very much should feel ashamed of wrongdoing and I find it amusing for you to suggest otherwise ^^ If they do not there is something wrong with them. We have enough people as it is and don't need to waste resources correcting deficient ones.