Two-Boxing

[Scavrefamn]

Originally Posted by Dekrastius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just have a hard time fully supporting this rule. While I have not broken it... I am older now with a career and a family and I dont have to time to jump into groups and level constantly...

There are many other servers that have tons of players that two-box where it is both encouraged and celebrated.

Join one of those?

[LizardNecro]

Dekrastius, I appreciate your argument. Let me give you a differing view. My first character on live was a warrior. It can be quite frustrating to be LFG as an untwinked, poorly geared warrior. One of the core ways to start a group was to find a cleric who was LFG.

I remember finding a warrior cleric duo who were xping. I asked them if I could join. The cleric didn't say anything, and the warrior said he was fine, thanks. I realized that this was a single individual who was boxing.

By boxing, this person effectively removed himself from the pool of available group mates. If he had been a cleric unable to box, then that would have been someone I could have grouped with.

On live, this problem was somewhat mitigated by the fact that it was expensive to box. You had to pay 2x the subscription fee, so not everyone did it. But on an emu, accounts are free. I checked in some of the other emu servers, and I could *never* find a group. Why? Because everyone was boxing! Boxing completely destroys the grouping aspect of EQ when it is done on a large scale.

So I would make the argument that it's especially important to keep boxing banned. And this is honestly the only reason I started playing on this server in the first place. I never would have made a character on a server where boxing was allowed, because I'm interested in playing EQ *with* other people, not being surrounded by boxers.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by LizardNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dekrastius, I appreciate your argument. Let me give you a differing view. My first character on live was a warrior. It can be quite frustrating to be LFG as an untwinked, poorly geared warrior. One of the core ways to start a group was to find a cleric who was LFG.

While I understand your personal dilemma, I must also stress the fact that you had the option at your disposal, on equal terms with all players, to choose a class that was less group dependent.

I remember finding a warrior cleric duo who were xping. I asked them if I could join. The cleric didn't say anything, and the warrior said he was fine, thanks. I realized that this was a single individual who was boxing.

By boxing, this person effectively removed himself from the pool of available group mates. If he had been a cleric unable to box, then that would have been someone I could have grouped with.

Again, and I don't disagree with your logic here, but the fact remains that this isn't anything different from a necromancer who's soloing. You could ask him if he wants a group, but he might just say, "I'm fine, thanks" and you're still left alone while he kills things for himself. It's still one player doing content he can do, that you cannot, via the means provided to him through his class.

On live, this problem was somewhat mitigated by the fact that it was expensive to box. You had to pay 2x the subscription fee, so not everyone did it. But on an emu, accounts are free. I checked in some of the other emu servers, and I could *never* find a group. Why? Because everyone was boxing! Boxing completely destroys the grouping aspect of EQ when it is done on a large scale.

I knew people who two-boxed on live, and it wasn't really all that expensive. The games came rather cheap early on as expansions came out, and building a second, lower end computer that could run EQ was rather inexpensive all things considered. But I do agree with you for the most part on this.

So I would make the argument that it's especially important to keep boxing banned. And this is honestly the only reason I started playing on this server in the first place. I never would have made a character on a server where boxing was allowed, because I'm interested in playing EQ *with* other people, not being surrounded by boxers.

This I just have to disagree with. So long as one single person isn't trying to be a selfish jerk by taking huge amounts of content away from groups of players, I in all honesty see very few reasonable arguments that can be made about boxing. If one player is running four characters and thus is able to single handedly camp half of Sol B by him or herself, then fine I agree. But if that one player is doing a single camp and he doesn't want you to join, that's his choice. My enchanter here was able to solo half the named in Sol B solo using charm at level 50, but I left the entire zone once a full group came in asking about camps. I did this because in my own moral code, I believed that allowing content to be utilized by 6 people was more important than hogging it all for my singular self. I put myself in their shoes and that made the answer easy for me. Telling players that they cannot play more than one character would be akin in some ways as telling specific classes that if they solo, they're gonna get banned because they're taking too much content from others who could be experiencing it as a group. I could solo any named in Lower Guk as an enchanter, and I was at liberty to do so, so I wouldn't take well to the idea of being demanded that I give it up just because another player's class cannot solo it like I can.

I'd give up content because it's the right thing to do. I'd also let others join me because it's fun, I'm social, and it's the right thing to do. Forcing people to choose how to play the game, especially when the game was coded to allow multiple classes to be played by a single person (it's within the confides of the code, the code doesn't prevent it, albeit how simple the code was for a game back then), isn't appropriate in my personal opinion.

[Dekrastius]

I acknowledge your points, and I, too, understand the need of grouping to make the EQ experience validated. The problem is... Lets say Velious comes out and virtually everyone is there exploring the new expansion and getting the new gear. In the event that you start a new character, it would be massively difficult to solo or find a group even in CB, SolB, or anywhere else in classic or Kunark - save for those who want to experience more of those areas, but it would be limited.

I, too, ran into many boxers. But if a limit was placed to say 2 boxes, 3 people could effectively make a great full group. I had a hard time finding a group on live - let alone in P99. Its an extremely painful process which is continuing me from coming back for the time being. Live gave me heart aches over no groups, but now the population is 1/1000 of live and it has become virtually non-existant.

So under the assumption you are grouping your boxed toons with other boxed toons, youre still playing with others, youre just eliminating the need to make a full group instead of 2-3 in a group who cant do anything or progress as fast as a full group would.

My first character was a MONK on live... No one ever wanted me to group, especially at lower leves and majority of my time was spent FD'ing, or masters all my skills to their highest degree. I LOVED my monk, but until he was in his mid thirties, he was virtually unwanted. Soloing as a monk for that time was absolutely dreadful.

I appreciate the server's want and need to remain as close to classic as possible, but I still retain my position of , there are too few players for this to be the real classic experience... Unless more players could be added into the game, it will be difficult to progress, experience and feel the world of EverQuest.

Thank you for your differing opinion though Liz, I agree with everything you said, I simply cannot spend the time to solo or sit LFG for hours on end =*( --- wish I could reverse the clock and relive it all again on Live.

[Swish]

If you open the door to boxing, you'll see a bunch of duos running around...and someone who doesn't like boxing who wants to group funnily then can't group because the boxers in some cases are fine with the XP rate without someone else watering it down.

Shifting the goalposts isn't going to solve the population "problem", if it is a problem...it's certainly not 1/1000 in comparison, probably 1/3 compared to average server populations on live during Kunark.

[Lunanegra]

I have a quick question. I completely agree with the no boxing rule. I agree it ruins the game to see groups where there is only one player. So I really support this rule. In live I boxed sometimes but I never actually enjoyed (was more necessity after no being ubber and not having group, than something I liked).

So no worries about this rule.

But... I worry about other game small activities like logging with two accounts for transfering items, rezzing a friend who is not online, corpse summoning... Is that a problem too? It is two accounts, but... is not multiboxing! No exp, no hunting, no nameds... just necessary activities!

In the old days with no shared bank, logging with two accounts is the only way to transfer items between your characters...

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by Lunanegra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But... I worry about other game small activities like logging with two accounts for transfering items, rezzing a friend who is not online, corpse summoning... Is that a problem too? It is two accounts, but... is not multiboxing! No exp, no hunting, no nameds... just necessary activities!

In the old days with no shared bank, logging with two accounts is the only way to transfer items between your characters...

The problem with this is its very easily abused. A strict NOto the rule for any reason eliminates any abusive behavior or loopholes players can and will find.

2boxing is abused already as is with people claiming they have friends/roommates/significant others that play, when indeed theyre single basement dwellers.

[Szeth]

Don't do it.

[Haul]

boxers suck

[Boombha]

virtually everyone is there exploring the new expansion

That's not going to happen. There will always be low level alts in low level zones. There will be new players to the game, in low level zones.

The first few months, it may be more difficult to find groups, but I doubt it will be impossible.