End of the rotation?

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you're turning Class R into an environment similar to pre-raid rules P99. TMO has simply been replaced by 3 entities, which is, as Catholicism has taught us, a perfectly acceptable way to manifest as an imaginary deity in a given universe.

BDA's not solely responsible for this happening, but we're once again taking the brunt of public opinion on it. It's convenient to pin it on BDA, because this time we wanted the change. I think the two sides were closer to an agreement that either side may have been willing to admit, too - but anyone who's privy to the Class R talks on any subjects in the past knows that typically, they take FOREVER...and we didn't think it was reasonable to milk things out over a month or two. For that, certainly BDA and the guilds that were on our side in the conversation have responsibility.

Didn't see the two previous occasions where change was called for, and led by guilds other than BDA, create a storm in public forums (and BDA played mediator to hold things together.)

At least RnF has a pulse again.....time for me to dip out and let the RnF Pro's get back to being Pro while I watch from the RnF sidelines.

[wycca]

Originally Posted by Anichek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unfortunately, for the time being, the talks are on hold - but allowing everyone some time to step back and really not worry about the terms of a "peace treaty" will hopefully bring some new ideas and some introspective/self-assessment by the guilds in Class R...BDA included. When the time is right, I'm sure we'll all be back at the table trying to hammer out a new agreement - if that's what everyone wants at that time.

Don't try to sugar coat it and do some ex-post-facto revisionism. You handed down an ultumatum to have a special walled garden created that preserved the juiciest raid mobs such that you wouldn't face competition for it.

Then when all of the guilds that wouldn't benefit massively from the ultumatum all said "no".....YOU, as well as Divinity & Taken, announced you were going FFA.

"Unfortunately", "for the time being", "the talks are on hold", "allowing everyone to step back", "when the time is right" - /barf. Don't try to sugar coat the shit you pulled, you're certainly not fooling anyone who actually knows what went down. That's all a bunch of bullshit and attempting to whitewash history.

There was no, let's put talks on hold, let's take a break, etc that was agreed on by everyone involved. You blew it up after your demands were not met and Divinity/Taken went along like eager school kids. This was about pixels and bullying, nothing more.

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[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you're turning Class R into an environment similar to pre-raid rules P99. TMO has simply been replaced by 3 entities, which is, as Catholicism has taught us, a perfectly acceptable way to manifest as an imaginary deity in a given universe.

Cecily. Please explain to me how giving a guild (or alliance of guilds if needed) an uncontested shot at a raid mob up in their rotation for one hour is anything like pre-raid rules P99 when shit was being engaged and killed within 5 mins of spawn. Eagerly awaiting your response.

[Tuljin]

Class C - Level 60 VP keyed zerg poopsock

Class R - Non-level 60 non-VP keyed zerg poopsock

After thousands of man hours of nerd negotiation and Google doc jockeying, this is what it has come down to

GG nerds /slowclap - you don't need a JD in P99 lawyerquesting to take whine, kick n' scream, then pick up your ball and go home

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cecily. Please explain to me how giving a guild (or alliance of guilds if needed) an uncontested shot at a raid mob up in their rotation for one hour is anything like pre-raid rules P99 when shit was being engaged and killed within 5 mins of spawn. Eagerly awaiting your response.

An hour is relatively acceptable. Having a tiered system based on the hardest mob per tier to lock guilds out so they can't have a shot at the mob is not.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Tuljin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Class C - Level 60 VP keyed zerg poopsock

Class R - Non-level 60 non-VP keyed zerg poopsock

After thousands of man hours of nerd negotiation and Google doc jockeying, this is what it has come down to

GG nerds /slowclap - you don't need a JD in P99 lawyerquesting to take whine, kick n' scream, then pick up your ball and go home

EFF EFF AYYYYYYY

[Tuljin]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EFF EFF AYYYYYYY

NO VAIR EE INTS AND MOAR RUHM BLZ

ftfy :-)

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An hour is relatively acceptable. Having a tiered system based on the hardest mob per tier to lock guilds out so they can't have a shot at the mob is not.

I've said before the tier system could use some tweaking (my personal opinion alone.)

There are many examples of progression-based tiered rotation systems back on Live to keep guilds of differing capability separated and spread out.

However, it doesn't make sense in a progression model to achieve the next tier of raiding by killing the easiest mob in the tier and then you can't kill the other 2-3 mobs in the tier, therefore demonstrating you aren't capable of participating meaningfully in raiding in that tier. Unless I'm missing something.

You kill the hardest mob in the tier to prove you can kill the other mobs in the tier. Progressive tiered rotations were classic and kept guilds who couldn't kill the mobs from padding the rotation and artificially jacking up demand in a limited supply environment.

Why is this such a hard pill to swallow?

[Argh]

Theres only one way to settle a dispute with so many parties:

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[Tuljin]

Because having Gore as the tier 2 mob and basing the lockouts on loot tables rather than mob difficulty its a thinly-veiled attempt by people of questionable levels of intelligence at manipulating the raid class system for their own benefit

Good answer?