Face Diapers Don't Do Anything

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you didn't read the evidence that was provided, just like you didn't thoroughly read the evidence you yourself provided; if you had, you might not have posted it in the first place.



I've only really been critical of your sources and claims; without credible sources, you've continued to repeat the claims, often without any variation whatsoever. If the original post had contained questionable information in favor of mask use, it would have elicited similar replies. Who was the person that first mentioned littering as being one obvious negative of (disposable) masks? Rhetorical question.



This isn't actually a term, though at least one other person on the internet used it so maybe it will catch on.



https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05...id-19-vaccine/

Texas GOP state senator urged use of unproven hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19. Now he's spreading doubt about vaccines.
In a period of sagging vaccination rates — particularly among staunch conservatives — state Sen. Bob Hall used his platform to promulgate debunked anti-vaccine conspiracies and push claims that have largely been eschewed by the medical community.



Source? Also, who's they? Because the CDC itself doesn't do the actual counting.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/factcheck/2021/05/06/fact-check-covid-19-deaths-dont-include-everyone-20-days

The post’s insinuation that coronavirus vaccines cause death is wrong — and so is the claim about how COVID-19 deaths are counted.

Local medical examiners, coroners and physicians decide whether COVID-19 contributed to someone’s death. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which maintains a tally of COVID-19 deaths, has guidance on how officials should fill out death certificates, but that guidance does not include a 20-day rule. False claims that the U.S. is padding coronavirus statistics have circulated since the early days of the pandemic.

The CDC gets data on COVID-19 deaths through the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), which gets its data from death certificates filed in state vital registration offices. When a local medical examiner, physician or coroner lists the coronavirus as a cause of death on a certificate, the CDC counts it as a COVID-19 death.



Source?

The CDC director did however say...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...inated-change/

The nation’s top public health official on Sunday defended her agency’s abrupt reversal on wide-ranging mask recommendations, saying that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had weighed new data before announcing that Americans who had been vaccinated could go without masks.



Because of...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-vaccines.html



Wikipedia...still more credible than retracted articles from sources known for promoting New Agey pseudoscience.

https://youtu.be/n5OmqA5t6lI

In regards to the financial incentive to stamp covid diagnosis and treatment, it applied to patients with Medicare. There was a federal program that paid hospitals around $13,000 for each Medicare patient with covid, and $39,000 for treatment of covid patients with ventilators

There was speculation that this could cause billing fraud due to financial incentives. While the fact checkers could not dispute the claim of the payments as false (the payments are true), the fact checkers report there has not been billing fraud discovered

Some more info: “ Ask FactCheck weighed in April 21: "The figures cited by Jensen generally square with estimated Medicare payments for COVID-19 hospitalizations, based on average Medicare payments for patients with similar diagnoses."

Ask FactCheck reporter Angelo Fichera, who interviewed Jensen, noted, "Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons. But that’s how his comments have been widely interpreted and paraded on social media."

Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."
(https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/)


As someone that works in healthcare, I can promise that billing fraud is rampant in this field, especially fraud of federal insurance payments. The fact it was not discovered doesn’t mean much, most likely it wasn’t even investigated

To argue the other side of the coin:

To claim that a death due to cardiac arrest being labeled a covid death is inaccurate isn’t entirely true. It’s all about causation. The most common (based on my reading) cause of death from Covid other than pulmonary issues was cardiac arrest. Now while this tended to affect obese people who already were vulnerable to cardiac arrest, in many scenarios the heart attack could have been directly caused by Covid’s effect on the body

A good example of this would be the dad of MMA fighter and legend Khabib Nurmagamenov, someone I’m a huge fan of (enough to hopefully spell his name correct from memory). Khabib’s dad was slightly overweight but not obese. He had a bad COVID infection and died from brain injuries, stroke, and cardiac arrest in one of the top hospitals in Russia getting top of the line medical care. His death was listed as due to COVID, because he wouldn’t have suffered that heart attack and stroke had COVID not been wrecking his body. So for people like him, it should still be listed as a death due to COVID

More info: https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports....133129448.html

And for any khabib fans, a sad homemade video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qhT25r7OR3w

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He was right about Hydroxychloroquine. India is recommending it as treatment and cases are declining fast.

Source?

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/indi...us-540404.html

https://indianexpress.com/article/ci...ients-7281146/

https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...es-2021-05-14/

Taking into consideration the number of conflicting accounts, its effectiveness remains inconclusive at best.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Healthy people with healthy immune systems don't need to be wearing a face mask outside or even in public places.

https://www.dw.com/en/life-behind-a-...mog/a-42199104

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've spent 60 pages googling wikipedia links trying to claim otherwise. You haven't proven your case and you never will since there is no consensus.

You continue to mention Wikipedia but never those other, more official websites. At least I actually did something productive within those 60 pages, more productive than repeating the same phrase over and over as if doing so would make it any more true.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, that's exactly what I said. Why did you leave that part out of your reply:

Questionable, isn't it? When someone purposefully leaves out a crucial detail to make you seem uninformed. Even worse, when they claim you said something that you very clearly did not.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hospitals wouldn't have received big payoffs though if they didn't say that person died from Covid. Another scam.

https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted

"Providers can get additional reimbursement through Medicare. That was a component of the CARES Act that was passed by Congress and signed by the president as a partial offset to all the extra costs that providers are incurring," Potter said.

People also claim death numbers are being inflated so hospitals get more money. Potter says that’s not true for two reasons.

The first, Potter says that 20% add-on from the CARES Act is only for services provided, not deaths.

In actual dollar amounts, Potter says the 20% payment averages out to be around $35,000 per patient on a ventilator.

Potter says the second reason it's not true is because of checks and balances.

“If somebody knowingly alters the medical record, which would then create the bill I think is being alleged here... That would be caught through audit. And if that occurred, you could be prosecuted -- there’s huge penalties," Potter said.

“I know that there’s a certain group of people out there who seem to think that we’re taking directions from the CDC, or physicians or certain health departments or something like this to inflate the numbers which is absolutely, completely false," Klaeser said.

"There's no pressure on the physician to say COVID, we’re going to get paid more if you have COVID," Dr. Mead said.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a win-win for the scammers given the mortality rate for Covid (which is really just The Flu)

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/artic...t-the-flu.html

There’s a refrain that “COVID-19 is just the flu,” which is not at all accurate.

Andrew Pekosz, PhD, says it can be hard to differentiate the two based on symptoms alone. But large numbers of susceptible people and increased rates of severe disease and death set COVID-19 apart from seasonal influenza.

Pekosz, a leading virologist who works on both diseases, breaks down key differences between COVID-19 and influenza to show why this pandemic is so critically—and catastrophically—dangerous.

What would you say to someone who insists to you that COVID-19 is “just the flu”?
Since December 2019, COVID-19 has killed more people in the U.S. than influenza has in the last five years.

Are there long-term health effects of the flu? How do they compare to increasing evidence about long-term health effects of COVID-19?

This is another area where the two viruses differ. COVID-19 survivors report many more long-term effects of the infection than influenza survivors. Lingering symptoms like weakness, shortness of breath, trouble focusing and, in some cases, kidney and heart problems are much more common after COVID-19 than after influenza.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...cts-of-covid19

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My original point still stands.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Old 04-17-2021, 05:24 PM
G13
Fire Giant

G13's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 781
Default Face Diapers Don't Do Anything
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Quote:
Clinical scientific evidence challenges further the efficacy of facemasks to block human-to-human transmission or infectivity. A randomized controlled trial (RCT) of 246 participants (50%) symptomatic)] who were allocated to either wearing or not wearing surgical facemask, assessing viruses transmission including coronavirus . The results of this study showed that among symptomatic individuals (those with fever, cough, sore throat, runny nose ect…) there was no difference between wearing and not wearing facemask for coronavirus droplets transmission of particles of >5 µm. Among asymptomatic individuals, there was no droplets or aerosols coronavirus detected from any participant with or without the mask, suggesting that asymptomatic individuals do not transmit or infect other people. This was further supported by a study on infectivity where 445 asymptomatic individuals were exposed to asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carrier (been positive for SARS-CoV-2) using close contact (shared quarantine space) for a median of 4 to 5 days. The study found that none of the 445 individuals was infected with SARS-CoV-2 confirmed by real-time reverse transcription polymerase

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8114149/

This article has been retracted.
Retraction in: Med Hypotheses. 2021 May 12; : 110601 See also: PMC Retraction Policy

Retraction notice to “Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health hypothesis” [Medical Hypotheses 146 (2021) 5]
Baruch Vainshelboim
Author information Copyright and License information Disclaimer
This retracts the article "Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health hypothesis" in Med Hypotheses, volume 146 on page 110411.
This article has been retracted: please see Elsevier Policy on Article Withdrawal (https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-b...cle-withdrawal).

This article has been retracted at the request of the Editor-in-Chief.

Medical Hypotheses serves as a forum for innovative and often disruptive ideas in medicine and related biomedical sciences. However, our strict editorial policy is that we do not publish misleading or inaccurate citations to advance any hypotheses.

The Editorial Committee concluded that the author’s hypothesis is misleading on the following basis:

1. A broader review of existing scientific evidence clearly shows that approved masks with correct certification, and worn in compliance with guidelines, are an effective prevention of COVID-19 transmission.

2. The manuscript misquotes and selectively cites published papers. References #16, 17, 25 and 26 are all misquoted.

3. Table 1. Physiological and Psychological Effects of Wearing Facemask and Their Potential Health Consequences, generated by the author. All data in the table is unverified, and there are several speculative statements.

4. The author submitted that he is currently affiliated to Stanford University, and VA Palo Alto Health Care System. However, both institutions have confirmed that Dr Vainshelboim ended his connection with them in 2016.

A subsequent internal investigation by the Editor-in-Chief and the Publisher have determined that this article was externally peer reviewed but not with our customary standards of rigor prior to publication. The journal has re-designed its editorial and review workflow to ensure that this will not happen again in future.

The Editor-in-Chief and the Publisher would like to apologize to the readers of The Journal for difficulties this issue has caused.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As someone that works in healthcare, I can promise that billing fraud is rampant in this field, especially fraud of federal insurance payments. The fact it was not discovered doesn’t mean much, most likely it wasn’t even investigated

Same. Having worked in hospice care for a brief stint years ago, the whole offer/counteroffer back and forth between providers and insurance companies seemed to suggest that a certain amount of fraud was casually accepted. The other disturbing fact was that doctors had customized rubber stamps for their signatures which interns would use when sorting through piles of "consumer" documents, all later to be quickly initialed in chicken scratch by the doctors. The doctors wouldn't even look at the paperwork, just thumb through it and make the pen touch paper, eyes elsewhere.

I suppose, as with most anything else, even MMA, over time the process becomes second nature.

[cd288]

Tbh I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone get so completely rebutted and destroyed as G13 just did from that comment above. Wow....lol

[G13]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Source?

https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/Revised...drsadvice_live

3.Patients eligible for home isolation. The patient should be clinically assigned as mild/ asymptomatic case by the treating Medical Officer.

vi.The care giver and all close contacts of such cases should take Hydroxychloroquine prophylaxis as per protocol and as prescribed by the treating medical officer.
6.Treatment for patients with mild /asymptomatic disease in home isolation

vi.Consider Tab Ivermectin (200 mcg/kg once a day, to be taken empty stomach) for 3 to 5 days.

Taking into consideration the number of conflicting accounts, its effectiveness remains inconclusive at best.

I'm sure profit margins have nothing to do with it

https://www.dw.com/en/life-behind-a-...mog/a-42199104

China. The origin of the virus. Nice.

You continue to mention Wikipedia but never those other, more official websites. At least I actually did something productive within those 60 pages, more productive than repeating the same phrase over and over as if doing so would make it any more true.

You're trying to rationalize all your efforts. I get it.

Questionable, isn't it? When someone purposefully leaves out a crucial detail to make you seem uninformed. Even worse, when they claim you said something that you very clearly did not.

You even quoted what I said in your next line. I'll highlight what's important. A child can understand it.

3/4ths of all deaths labeled as "Covid" were someone who died from a heart attack or something and had traces of Covid. Hospitals wouldn't have received big payoffs though if they didn't say that person died from Covid. Another scam.

The fatality numbers have always been suspect

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/c...h-certificate/

The number of coronavirus deaths in state figures topped 1,000 earlier this week, and the number stood at 1,150 deaths as of Friday afternoon. But officials with the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment revealed during a call with reporters that that number does not represent the number of people who have died due to COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.

Instead, the death figure CDPHE has been providing for weeks is more accurately described as the number of people with COVID-19 who have died — for any reason. The number of people who have died and have COVID-19 listed on their death certificate is 24% lower: 878, according to CDPHE’s latest figures.

Timestamp: 2:35:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkP1t_2u5B0

Luetkemeyer - "As long as you have COVID in your system you get to claim it as a COVID death, which means you get more money as attending physician, hospital, whatever,” Would you like to comment on that, about the perverse incentive? Is there an effort to try and do something different.”

Redfield - "I think you’re correct in that and we’ve seen this in other disease processes too"

It doesn't even stop with Hospitals

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/go...ts/ar-BB1fzKta

Americans who’ve lost family members or friends from COVID-19 can now apply to get up to $9,000 from the government to reimburse them for their loved one’s funeral costs.

You're relying too much on media believing there is no agenda or narrative at play. As someone else pointed out above, there is always rampant fraud with anything that has to do with Government Funding and generally there isn't a lot of zeal to uncover it. Another example is unemployment. Billions wasted on fraud but I'm sure there is a link out there you can find that will claim otherwise.

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/artic...t-the-flu.html

There’s a refrain that “COVID-19 is just the flu,” which is not at all accurate.

Andrew Pekosz, PhD, says it can be hard to differentiate the two based on symptoms alone. But large numbers of susceptible people and increased rates of severe disease and death set COVID-19 apart from seasonal influenza.

Pekosz, a leading virologist who works on both diseases, breaks down key differences between COVID-19 and influenza to show why this pandemic is so critically—and catastrophically—dangerous.

What would you say to someone who insists to you that COVID-19 is “just the flu”?
Since December 2019, COVID-19 has killed more people in the U.S. than influenza has in the last five years.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/7088318002/

Peak Flu Season was non existent this year OR they could have all been counted as Covid

This article has been retracted at the request of the Editor-in-Chief.

Politics and Censorship

[Gravydoo II]

THE ARTICLE HAS BEEN RETRACTED.
Dont you get it G13??
Retracted. You're a bentham science researcher. lol

[HalflingSpergand]

I don't believe you guys are reading this shit

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by HalflingSpergand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't believe you guys are reading this shit

I've read nearly all of what I linked, but the pictures at the very bottom of the air pollution article were more telling than any quotes or data.

[G13]

Originally Posted by HalflingSpergand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't believe you guys are reading this shit

Nobody commenting (except one guy) has read any of it

I'm enjoying his efforts though

Case in point:

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've read nearly all of what I linked, but the pictures at the very bottom of the air pollution article were more telling than any quotes or data.

huge.JPG

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.mohfw.gov.in/pdf/Revised...drsadvice_live

I'm sure profit margins have nothing to do with it

There are other articles and documents that advise the same, yet the data still remains inconclusive. But then, given the present circumstances, why not take it when the side effects are not as problematic as the potential effects of covid?

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

China. The origin of the virus. Nice.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50258947

Five million masks are being distributed at schools in India's capital, Delhi, after pollution made the air so toxic officials were forced to declare a public health emergency.

A Supreme Court-mandated panel imposed several restrictions in the city and two neighbouring states, as air quality deteriorated to "severe" levels.

Dangerous particulate levels in the air are about 20 times the WHO maximum.

The city's schools have also been closed until at least next Tuesday.

All construction has been halted for a week and fireworks have been banned. From Monday, the city will introduce a temporary scheme so that only cars with odd or even numbered licence plates can drive on given days, in a bid to cut traffic pollution.

Delhi's Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal said the city had been turned into a "gas chamber".

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're trying to rationalize all your efforts. I get it.

Impossible, only a rational person would get it.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You even quoted what I said in your next line. I'll highlight what's important.

That I did, but it wasn't highlighted in bold, something anyone skimming through could have easily overlooked. Who might have skimmed through? Not you anymore it seems.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you didn't read the evidence that was provided, just like you didn't thoroughly read the evidence you yourself provided; if you had, you might not have posted it in the first place.

Even if it only applies to forum posts, hey, progress is progress.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A child can understand it.

What about a manchild?

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fatality numbers have always been suspect

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/c...h-certificate/

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That article isn't readable. The website requires that visitors create an account. What are the chances that you, of all people, put in the effort to do that? Unless you're a Colorado native, it seems unlikely. But, giving the benefit of he doubt, why don't you copy/paste it here for the rest of us who have enough spam as it is already.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're relying too much on media believing there is no agenda or narrative at play. As someone else pointed out above, there is always rampant fraud with anything that has to do with Government Funding and generally there isn't a lot of zeal to uncover it. Another example is unemployment. Billions wasted on fraud but I'm sure there is a link out there you can find that will claim otherwise.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Peak Flu Season was non existent this year OR they could have all been counted as Covid

Quoting directly from the usatoday article you linked and didn't read entirely because if you had you would have noticed...

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/7088318002/

A year full of social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing and staying at home to prevent coronavirus spread rendered the 2020-2021 influenza season practically nonexistent.

“If we learned enough from this COVID pandemic, maybe everybody will always wear masks if they have a runny nose … maybe businesses will allow them to stay home and not force them to come to work,” he said. “It could really make us a lot healthier.”

https://youtu.be/fEff3tl3edw