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  #11  
Old 01-08-2018, 02:22 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by Pyrion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Mana regeneration is way more important than a big mana pool. With a big mana pool you can heal yourself up once. And then? Take a long time to med back up. In the end you spend the same time healing up as with a smaller mana pool if you want to be FM at the end again
That's not a universal truth: it REALLY depends on what you're doing.

I'm coming at this from a Shaman's perspective, but the basic idea is the same. When you are leveling, whether solo or grouping, it's all about your ability to kill as many mobs as possible over the course of an hour (or more). Max mana/HP gear only gives you more HP/Mana for the very first fight in that hour; after that it has no effect on your kill speed. Regeneration/Flowing Thought gear however gives you more and more HP/Mana as the hour progresses, so after a few fights it does more to improve your kill speed than wearing higher maximums gear.

BUT not all of EQ is a steady stream of (as efficient as possible) killing. If you're planning to solo a tough mob, unless the fight lasts a really long time, starting with higher maximums is going to give you more HP/Mana for that fight than the regen gear will, because the regen gear won't have time to regen much. Similarly if you are killing raid bosses everyone waits until the raid is ready before the boss fight, then they kill the boss (usually in under a minute or two), then they recover again. So again you have a situation with a relatively short fight, which means maximums truly are better than regen (for most raid bosses at least).
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2018, 06:08 PM
Sage Truthbearer Sage Truthbearer is offline
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60 pally here. The size of your mana pool does not matter unless you know for sure you're going to spend a lot of time raiding Velious content. That's because your groups are going be eating a shitload of AoEs, and every extra point of mana is critical because it means more HoTs you can cast. Paladins HoTs are actually pretty efficient and having a large mana pool means being able to cast more of them to keep your groups topped off. However, if you do not plan to do Velious raiding then who cares.
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2018, 02:58 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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Your mana pool might be relevant once per raid, or while XPing once or twice per session.

Your stamina pool is going to be contingent everytime you get to low hp, every time you receive a cheal and probably every time you receive a torpor.

At the very peak of the game, wis might be more useful. Having more stamina is going to make your ride there easier, though.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2018, 12:36 PM
Tuljin Tuljin is offline
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As mentioned many times the main limiting factor during most of your life as a Paladin (and all other magic users in EQ) is your mana regeneration rate, not your max mana pool. PvP Paladins point out wisdom because if you run out of mana you're dead.

When I rolled my Paladin I was very much "into" short tanks which is the main reason why I went Dwarf - its also a happy coincidence that its the mix/max option. I often regret not rolling Erudite but it really doesn't matter. My biggest disappointment with Dorf was the horrendously low CHA because you will find yourself calming quite often. I got through it just fine however and there is plenty of CHA gear you can swap in if you want. On a PvE server its arguable that on Paladin your base CHA is more useful than WIS, though I would not throw any points into CHA at roll.

Something that nobody in the thread has mentioned is the importance of DEX as a Paladin. Paladins rely on proccing weapons while leveling all the way on through epic weapon (and you also get the Divine Might spell proc). Paladin DPS is never stellar and procs come in huge such as the stuns from a Sword of the Morning, which do way more for melee damage and spell mitigation than your raw DPS ever could. I rolled my Paladin with 100 base STR/STA/DEX with 5 points into AGI because I really liked the thought of a "statty" toon.

All this talk of "end game Velious raiding" comes with a huge caveat - that you will actually level the Paladin to 60. Even with the removal of the class XP penalties this is a tall task. Paladins are highly group dependent and even with the removal of the huge hybrid penalty you still won't be first choice for a pickup group. Also realize that the point of a rolling a Paladin is not to sit on a "raid" as a tertiary healer. If you really wanted to "raid" (i.e. wait for batphones and faceroll trivialized content) you wouldn't have rolled a Paladin. You will spend way more time on the path to 60 actually playing dungeon content than you will just sitting on your hands not being very "raid useful." Paladin has an incredibly versatile spell set that is specifically suited to group dungeon play and if you have friends who are good at the game you can play with its a ton of fun.

In short, don't regret your roll at all. Half Elf has low WIS but all the other stats are fine. Just keep getting your levels and have fun playing. If you are playing in groups and getting XP your mana bar will rarely be full.
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:09 AM
kaev kaev is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Truthbearer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
60 pally here. The size of your mana pool does not matter unless you know for sure you're going to spend a lot of time raiding Velious content. That's because your groups are going be eating a shitload of AoEs, and every extra point of mana is critical because it means more HoTs you can cast. Paladins HoTs are actually pretty efficient and having a large mana pool means being able to cast more of them to keep your groups topped off. However, if you do not plan to do Velious raiding then who cares.
No doubt onelast 700hp HoT saved a raid somewhere, somewhen, once, maybe. Or maybe kept somebody alive one more second so the last living cleric could actually log out for recovery after the wipe. There were dozens of EQ servers after all. But seriously? Does your guild check whether its paladins are FM before a pull?

No offense intended, you've posted a fair bit of good stuff to the forums. But I just don't see meaningful value to a little bit of extra max mana (a max of 20 wis is less than one cast of Celestial Cleansing) on a char the raid leaders are thinking of primarily as a Divine Strength buffbot.
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:41 PM
Sage Truthbearer Sage Truthbearer is offline
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Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
No doubt onelast 700hp HoT saved a raid somewhere, somewhen, once, maybe. Or maybe kept somebody alive one more second so the last living cleric could actually log out for recovery after the wipe. There were dozens of EQ servers after all. But seriously? Does your guild check whether its paladins are FM before a pull?

No offense intended, you've posted a fair bit of good stuff to the forums. But I just don't see meaningful value to a little bit of extra max mana (a max of 20 wis is less than one cast of Celestial Cleansing) on a char the raid leaders are thinking of primarily as a Divine Strength buffbot.
Reading comprehension must be hard for you, because nothing of what you just typed is even close to what I said.

This thread is about a guy who wants to min/max his race and starting stats, which is just a question of very small optimization.

I gave my opinion that the size of your mana pool is not all that important other than Velious raiding. I am not suggesting that a Paladin is going to play a significant role in patch healing raids.
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:06 AM
kaev kaev is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Truthbearer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Reading comprehension must be hard for you, because nothing of what you just typed is even close to what I said.

This thread is about a guy who wants to min/max his race and starting stats, which is just a question of very small optimization.

I gave my opinion that the size of your mana pool is not all that important other than Velious raiding. I am not suggesting that a Paladin is going to play a significant role in patch healing raids.
Interesting. You claim size of mana pool is important for Velious raids, I respond with an explanation why that is simply not true, and you come back with a gratuitous insult and a repeat of your claim without any meaningful argument to support it. Maybe my attempt to be courteous to you was unwarranted after all.
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2018, 04:46 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Starting stat choices don't really amount to any significant functional difference at any level of game play. You could dump all your points into intelligence and still manage just fine. Whether group or raid ... a cleric or group would probably be unable to notice any difference amongst 4 paladins of identical race/level/gear with one dumping 20 into wisdom/intelligence/stamina/strength. People who really think this matters at all make me giggle. The most important factors are level/gear/skill ... the rest seriously is a wash.

Min/max for a person who plans on raiding end game? Probably wisdom.

2nd best? I'd vote stamina.

Stat that will help the most while leveling? I'd vote strength for carrying capacity and higher dps in the early game.

The frequently forgotten paladin stat? Charisma. This is off set by the relatively low price of cheap charisma gear that can be swapped in for lulling.
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2018, 04:48 PM
maskedmelon maskedmelon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Starting stat choices don't really amount to any significant functional difference at any level of game play. You could dump all your points into intelligence and still manage just fine. Whether group or raid ... a cleric or group would probably be unable to notice any difference amongst 4 paladins of identical race/level/gear with one dumping 20 into wisdom/intelligence/stamina/strength. People who really think this matters at all make me giggle. The most important factors are level/gear/skill ... the rest seriously is a wash.

Min/max for a person who plans on raiding end game? Probably wisdom.

2nd best? I'd vote stamina.

Stat that will help the most while leveling? I'd vote strength for carrying capacity and higher dps in the early game.

The frequently forgotten paladin stat? Charisma. This is off set by the relatively low price of cheap charisma gear that can be swapped in for lulling.
best paladin statvice right har ^^
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  #20  
Old 01-12-2018, 04:51 PM
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make friends with an enchanter or bard (or a bored necromancer) and you'll quickly forget what the wisdom stat was
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