Why do people seem to hate luclin so much?

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Several reasons.

Lots hated the bazaar. They say it killed the buyer-seller social interaction. How is that a bad thing? I don't know. I guess people like to lowball with ridiculous offers. I've never had a meaningful interaction while trading, because i treat EC like i treat Wal-Mart. I get in, but my shit, and get out. I don't try to make friends with the cashier.

Lots hated the spires and easier transportation, too. I guess a 30 minutes round trip is too easy. I've never had any meaningful social interaction with a porter either. I'm polite and friendly and i tip decently considering my meager financial means, but i've never had a real conversation with someone that ported me.

I often see the "aliens and spaceship" argument, which is downright parroting the WoW argument when TBC came out. There is no spaceship in Luclin, that was world of warcraft. I guess people need their orcs/frogloks/kobolds to be happy.

The long grind of Luclin is my favorite argument, because it tells a lot about people. Most common complaints heard are "VT shard farming is too long" and "Mobs have too many hitpoints and take forever to die, so it's boring". Now that is funny.

See, the thing is most p99 players like to pat themselves on the back and tell themselves they're "oldschool and hardcore". WoW and other modern MMOs are too easy, they say. There's no challenge, no sense of accomplishment. That's pretty much bullshit, because lots of people refuse to group with hybrids, the xp being too slowed down too much. I've seen people in EC ask for a port to Lavastorm, which is 2 zones away.

P99 players are huge fucking casuals at heart. If something takes too long to kill, then it's boring and not efficient enough. They spend the hardest and longest part of the road to 60 in Chardok, paying for AE pulls instead.

So the thought of VT shard farming, Ssra bane weapons molds farming and actually spending more than 15 seconds per mob while clearing Vex Thal trash, is horrible.

They like it hard, but not too hard. Just hard enough to congratulate themselves for playing "old-school EQ", but not so much to the point where they actually have to pay attention to whats happening in the game because then, they can't watch netflix at the same time.

Luclin absolutely rocks.

Pretty much this right here. People bemoan the ease of today's MMOs, but are frightened of the more grindy era of EQ. Velious is actually one of the expansions that requires the least effort. There are no new levels to obtain, and you can gear up a guild quite easily from tov trash. Even faction grinding really just takes the form of tagging the boss on a few kills, which you can do regardless of who is killing the mob. You could say that it takes some effort to gear people up to handle the tougher mobs of the expansion, but I'll go ahead and make the bold prediction that no guilds will take the "right" path of gearing up 30-40 solid raiders to then challenge tormax/aow/ntov. Instead they'll be zerging around with 60-80 people, some of whom may have the best gear, but not many.

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Several reasons.

Lots hated the bazaar. They say it killed the buyer-seller social interaction. How is that a bad thing? I don't know. I guess people like to lowball with ridiculous offers. I've never had a meaningful interaction while trading, because i treat EC like i treat Wal-Mart. I get in, but my shit, and get out. I don't try to make friends with the cashier.

Lots hated the spires and easier transportation, too. I guess a 30 minutes round trip is too easy. I've never had any meaningful social interaction with a porter either. I'm polite and friendly and i tip decently considering my meager financial means, but i've never had a real conversation with someone that ported me.

I often see the "aliens and spaceship" argument, which is downright parroting the WoW argument when TBC came out. There is no spaceship in Luclin, that was world of warcraft. I guess people need their orcs/frogloks/kobolds to be happy.

The long grind of Luclin is my favorite argument, because it tells a lot about people. Most common complaints heard are "VT shard farming is too long" and "Mobs have too many hitpoints and take forever to die, so it's boring". Now that is funny.

See, the thing is most p99 players like to pat themselves on the back and tell themselves they're "oldschool and hardcore". WoW and other modern MMOs are too easy, they say. There's no challenge, no sense of accomplishment. That's pretty much bullshit, because lots of people refuse to group with hybrids, the xp being too slowed down too much. I've seen people in EC ask for a port to Lavastorm, which is 2 zones away.

P99 players are huge fucking casuals at heart. If something takes too long to kill, then it's boring and not efficient enough. They spend the hardest and longest part of the road to 60 in Chardok, paying for AE pulls instead.

So the thought of VT shard farming, Ssra bane weapons molds farming and actually spending more than 15 seconds per mob while clearing Vex Thal trash, is horrible.

They like it hard, but not too hard. Just hard enough to congratulate themselves for playing "old-school EQ", but not so much to the point where they actually have to pay attention to whats happening in the game because then, they can't watch netflix at the same time.

Luclin absolutely rocks.

Yep, really agree on how dissonant people are about 'easiness'. They say they like it hard, but when you make it hard they bitch. Then if you ease it up they get bored and wander off. 'Well, it's not the right KIND of hard', they often say, meaning they don't think long kill times, death penalties, intricately difficult raid targets, farming, etc., are 'fun' hard, ignoring the fact that there simply aren't other kinds of hardness in MMO's. Hardness is always annoying.

What they really mean is that they want to claim they like it hard, but only the stuff they don't feel like doing should be actually hard. But I think most of the P99'ers are more in tune with whats up as far as hardness goes, and actually appreciate it in classic EQ. As far as Luclin, I liked it for the most part. PoP was the best though. PoP with no books gets my vote.

[Bolix]

Said it before, but I loved luclin raiding.
Even though I had to help wasters camp VT shards 300 times!

One problem with too many expansions is that it dilutes the player pool levellling in zones. With more zones to level in, people get more spread out, and that takes away from the 'community' feel of the game (i.e. you feel it isn't just you against the game, there are others around you).

Bazaar, mounts, cats, UI. I don't have any huge preference on these things (clarification, I don't want to mount a cat). I wouldn't die in a ditch over any of these things, and if lots of people wanted, or didn't want them, wouldn't bother me too much.

[iruinedyourday]

Its just a different game.

there are lots of reasons why luclin is not classic EQ

1. the itimization decimiates 80-90% of the camps in classic EQ, so the pop in these zones drops, the value of *classic nameds becomes worthless.

2. new models are stupid and ugly and should go to hell

3. world of warcraft gaming, all that shit, we dont like, if we liked it we wouldnt be playing p99

[Vaderman]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. the itimization decimiates 80-90% of the camps in classic EQ, so the pop in these zones drops, the value of nameds becomes worthless.

Velious already did this

[Teneran]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty much this right here. People bemoan the ease of today's MMOs, but are frightened of the more grindy era of EQ. Velious is actually one of the expansions that requires the least effort. There are no new levels to obtain, and you can gear up a guild quite easily from tov trash. Even faction grinding really just takes the form of tagging the boss on a few kills, which you can do regardless of who is killing the mob. You could say that it takes some effort to gear people up to handle the tougher mobs of the expansion, but I'll go ahead and make the bold prediction that no guilds will take the "right" path of gearing up 30-40 solid raiders to then challenge tormax/aow/ntov. Instead they'll be zerging around with 60-80 people, some of whom may have the best gear, but not many.

Maybe I played a different version of Velious somehow but there is no way you could get the faction required for quest turn-ins by "tagging the boss on a few kills"; that's an outrageous statement (look up the definition of 'a few' if required). When I needed to turn in the Dain's head to Tormax I killed a zillions dwarfs outside Thurgadin in addition to tagging and killing numerous bosses to get to the required Ally. It was a grind for sure.

I would agree Luclin took more effort and I liked the expansion but Velious wasn't ez-mode either.

[Ezalor]

this is at least the 10th luclin thread this week

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its just a different game.

there are lots of reasons why luclin is not classic EQ

1. the itimization decimiates 80-90% of the camps in classic EQ, so the pop in these zones drops, the value of nameds becomes worthless.

2. new models are stupid and ugly and should go to hell

3. world of warcraft gaming, all that shit, we dont like, if we liked it we wouldnt be playing p99

1. I suggest you look at Velious itemization. Cause it absolutely crushes basically everything from Kunark. There are a few items / slots where this is not true. But the case is the exact same as the case in Luclin.

2. Agreed. Classic Models until GoD or so then Luclin fit into the world better IMO

3. Wat? Quests are still very EverQuesty. They aren't "go kill 10 boars and Grats on 2 levels". Vex Thal Key is probably one of the best... Travel to almost every zone and camp from... Human friendly guards in a corrupt city, to tentacle humanoids in a cave, to long dead Iksar skeletons in a snake's mine, to giant insectoids in a cave, etc. Not to mention quests like Earring of Solstice, Sigil Earring, Loyalists Shield, and so many other great ones.

Luclin also brought AAs which gave worth to exp at 60. Also it made Tradeskills relevant because they created useful items... More than just JC/Alchemy like we have now.

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

decimiates

1/10th really isn't that bad.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Daldaen]

People focus on VT gear too much or the end game Luclin Content, and say "look how OP this was", but fail to recognize that's top tier stuff not everyone has access to. And AoW, Tunare, NToV/EToV and some Dain/Tormax/Yelinak loot looks pretty comparable to that VT gear.

The actual normal groupable / casual raider gear though isn't an enormous jump ever in EQ until SoF. And that was a terrible expansion because of it trivializing all prior raid content.