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  #1  
Old 01-24-2021, 12:27 AM
Vizax_Xaziv Vizax_Xaziv is offline
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Default Change ZEMs for a MORE Classic experience!

Right now most of the Kunark zones are very underpopulated resulting in a decidedly non-Classic gameplay experience. I wanna see groups at the giant fort in FM. I wanna see groups camping outside of Karnors Castle in DL etc etc.
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:57 AM
Swish Swish is offline
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:18 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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"Classic" can mean two very different things to different people: I like to categorize it as "classic mechanics" vs. "classic environment".

As Swish pointed out, mechanically ZEM changes aren't classic. But you're not wrong either: it would feel more classic if we had people spread out across many zones, the way they were in classic, instead of clustering in certain "hot zones" (especially when those "hot zones", like The Hole, weren't "hot zones" in classic ... making things feel extra "un-classic" in terms of the environment).

Usually the staff here prefer classic mechanics over classic environment ... but it's not 100%. It took them 10 years, but they did finally nerf Soulfire, for instance (a clearly unclassic change, mechanically ... which made for a much more classic environment). So similarly here there's a chance they'll decide that making "hot zones", where most of the server goes to XP, isn't the most classic option (overall).

Personally I think the most classic thing staff could do is change ZEMs and either not tell us, or be super cryptic about it in the patch message ... because we all know that's the sort of thing Verant would have done to solve this [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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Last edited by loramin; 01-24-2021 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:47 PM
azxten azxten is offline
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From what I remember ZEM already isn't classic here. No ZEM was over 100 in true classic. P99 offers almost a 2x exp rate in hot zones.

As I and others have said this is why the server ends up so top heavy. True classic EQ was painfully difficult to level in. Massive amounts of bugs, more difficult channeling, and slower exp. Enchanters never charmed in live classic/kunark because the spell was so broken. No one really knows why some things are classic and others aren't. Probably just the preference of the devs. Pet attack delay from daggers was nerfed, AE groups nerfed, Bard AE nerfed, but Enchanter charm is left alone and double exp rates are left in. Newb mob rates were increased and we even instanced Teal to "reduce congestion."

The congestion in EQ and the resulting social drama is what made the game fun for me. The staff seems to see this as a big inconvenience as people cry in petitions. On live such trivial petitions were basically ignored entirely but on P99 you can record video and post it on forums and get someone banned because they stole a mob from you. It's ridiculous. No one has any kind of reputation outside of raiding. I've played on roleplay type servers that have the same problem. If you actually play "evil" and screw people over the players cry and staff ends up intervening and building rules around just how evil you're allowed to be.

P99 for whatever reason seems to take a stance that end game raiding IS the point of EQ. However, for a lot of players like myself the group/solo mechanics and the social atmosphere of having lots of players at all levels is what made it enjoyable. I don't like P99 where everyone you meet seems to have a 50+ alt and the whole game ends up focused on raiding due to the fast exp rates.

EQ raiding is pretty tedious and 10x moreso on P99 where all raid strategies are known and encounters trivialized by guilds easily recruiting hundreds of high levels that would never be able to make it that high without the bonus exp rates and easy enchanter pet groups. Not to mention the near constant "power level" groups sitting in the high ZEM areas to get new members to raid ready as fast as possible.

P99 is so close to a truly enjoyable classic experience but this treadmill to max level always seems to be left in for whatever reason resulting in empty zones and a sentiment that the game won't start until you're 50+. Once you get to 50+ you'll find that your character is basically pointless. Your guild will have 100+ people showing up. Your class will be alted by at least 10 other people who can login to their alt depending on classes needed. Guilds are mainly a core of players who have enough alts to do all the interesting work themselves. New Monk? Don't worry, just AFK and hit auto attack, your guild officer will log on their Monk to do the pulls because they don't have time to teach you and rely on you. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to take all the loot for themselves as almost every guild's leadership on P99 does. Any raid loot you get is ultimately pointless as your guild is more than powerful enough to kill raid mobs even if you're mostly naked. It only makes grouping and soloing easier but with the trivial max level treadmill this also quickly becomes pointless. All raid gear ultimately is only useful for making soloing for more useless gear easier and for power leveling alts.

I wish Teal and Green could exist with different rule sets. Let Green be "P99 lite" with the faster ZEMs, hand holding from staff, etc. Let Teal be "P99 classic" with slow exp, no intervention from staff except for serious problems, new raid mobs with more HP or challenging attacks, and the only non-classic changes being nerfed overpowered items and strategies that apply equally across the board. Not where some classes are left alone like Enchanter even though tons of evidence exists to show they're the most ridiculously overpowered non-classic class above and beyond anything that ever existed in live yet mysteriously are allowed to keep this power on P99.

Just waiting for Green 2.0 now, I hope it's more classic than Green 1.0 was. No bonus exp, no OP Enchanter, no staff hand holding, no instancing, no modified spawn rates, no quest exp nerfs, no easy channeling, no overcap stat bonuses, no OP pet HP amounts, more difficult or modified raid encounters to maintain challenge, and so on. Fix all of this and we'll see a return to real classic EQ including leveling groups all over the place and a real raid scene made up of skilled players who put in the time having to learn fights for themselves. One can dream.
Last edited by azxten; 01-24-2021 at 02:09 PM..
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2021, 01:58 PM
bomaroast bomaroast is offline
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The people here for the joy of it are very few. For most, this is a job. There's no room for inefficiency.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2021, 02:28 PM
Vizax_Xaziv Vizax_Xaziv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomaroast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The people here for the joy of it are very few. For most, this is a job. There's no room for inefficiency.
Which is why staff intervention would be required for any change. People simply won't group where the XP is slower -- especially when other zones may also be more difficult as well.
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Old 01-24-2021, 02:55 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Enchanters never charmed in live classic/kunark because the spell was so broken.

...

Just waiting for Green 2.0 now, I hope it's more classic than Green 1.0 was. No bonus exp, no OP Enchanter,
This part hurts because it's so right. Everyone who played on live knows Enchanters weren't like this, but for ten years everyone has just ignored the obvious contradiction here.

At this point Enchanters have been so unclassic for so long, I'm firmly convinced that either Nilbog or Rogean played one in Live, and has a blind spot for them. Therefore I don't think we will ever see classic (ie. not soloing) Enchanters on P99 ... but I truly hope I'm wrong.
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2021, 03:05 PM
Fammaden Fammaden is offline
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Its certainly not classic in spirit, even if the ZEM is era accurate. People 50+ in Kunark leveled in KC and Seb for pickup grouping, and then after Velious on my server at least Velks became another hugely popular pick up group XP zone. There most certainly were not 30 to 50+ people in xp groups and looking for group in the Hole like, ever. I can't imagine other servers during Kunark/early Velious were much different.

The Hole was already good ZEM on blue back before this change when it was bring your own group and there were never more than ten people there at the time. The extra ZEM has proven to be overkill IMO. It didn't bother me much on blue when they first raised the ZEM. The Hole is a great zone and its fun at first getting more people to go there and xp in more parts of it than just docks. But as time wears on and now we see the effect it had on the green "Kunark" experience, its hard to see this as a good path for the spirit of the green server.
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Old 01-24-2021, 03:16 PM
cd288 cd288 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Its certainly not classic in spirit, even if the ZEM is era accurate. People 50+ in Kunark leveled in KC and Seb for pickup grouping, and then after Velious on my server at least Velks became another hugely popular pick up group XP zone. There most certainly were not 30 to 50+ people in xp groups and looking for group in the Hole like, ever. I can't imagine other servers during Kunark/early Velious were much different.

The Hole was already good ZEM on blue back before this change when it was bring your own group and there were never more than ten people there at the time. The extra ZEM has proven to be overkill IMO. It didn't bother me much on blue when they first raised the ZEM. The Hole is a great zone and its fun at first getting more people to go there and xp in more parts of it than just docks. But as time wears on and now we see the effect it had on the green "Kunark" experience, its hard to see this as a good path for the spirit of the green server.
You’re right about the hole, but zems also got rotated back in the day. I don’t mind seeing a ton of people in there if they were planning to eventually rotate the ZEM again. I also think it would be cool if they didn’t disclose the specific ZEM changes; just told us they’d been changed and left it up to the players to go out and find which zones had a boost
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2021, 03:39 PM
coki coki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Just waiting for Green 2.0 now, I hope it's more classic than Green 1.0 was. No bonus exp, no OP Enchanter, no staff hand holding, no instancing, no modified spawn rates, no quest exp nerfs, no easy channeling, no overcap stat bonuses, no OP pet HP amounts, more difficult or modified raid encounters to maintain challenge, and so on. Fix all of this and we'll see a return to real classic EQ including leveling groups all over the place and a real raid scene made up of skilled players who put in the time having to learn fights for themselves. One can dream.
So if they were to release a truly classic server everyone would just exploit it, like having 100+ people all dump their Ivandyr's hoops charges on a the same boss to kill it instantly...This right here is why we don't have a 100% classic experience
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