Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[xmonkx]

Please find me a thread or post or anything from live stating that you could NOT train in VP. Don't worry, i'll wait.

[sulpher01]

Fine have your poll, but its pointless

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Zapatos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The players doing the majority of training in there do it because they want to. I really wish you had spent more time even just observing VP when there was still action to watch, then you'd see just how silly a statement like that is.

History of the server has shown no competing guild can go in there without being trained even if they say they don't want any training. See Vesica Dei: they decided as a guild to NOT train when they went into VP... and immediately got corpsed camped. It took barely a day for their internal poll to switch from 90% against training to 90% for training. I'm not going to put the blame all on the guild who was in there at the time, but I will say that sort of behavior has a positive feedback and it only takes one person to start it.

you clearly missed what i was saying. you say players doing most of the training do it because they want to, maybe instead of assuming how much time i spend in VP, you should be thinking of ways to remove their incentive for training you. or train them back.

i love that you added, "GuildA decided as a guild not to train and then got corpse camped". First of all, who cares what one guild says or dictates? second, its laughable to think that they thought they wouldnt get trained in a zone that sees more trains than grand central station, simply because THEY decided not to train.

all the guilds need to agree to something or it doesnt work. and sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire until the other sides are willing to come to the table and talk.

if you do not force them to the discussion table with your actions, why would they agree to anything? i know i surely would not.

<3

PS- as for the guy that said he will train anyone not in his guild, well, hes not a guild leader, and if his GL tells him to knock it off, he will. but currently its open season, and hunters are gonna hunt

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Until the GM's state that you can no longer train in VP, I will continue to unmercifully train any person or persons that steps into VP without a TMO tag on. You also ask for proof that training wasn't aloud in live. Well you're the one with the burden of proof to prove that it wasn't.

See Sirken. This is why no discussion ever gets off the ground right here. No offense to TMO or anyone in their guild... Heck if I was in their shoes I would like the current rules on training in VP as well. They know that they have more numbers than anyone else. They also know that they can train with those numbers until people get burnt out in VP. TMO for better or worse likes it this way. Largely because they don't have to race in VP with the current rules about training inside VP. Which means they can raid VP at their leisure and if anyone tries to enter the zone they burn people out of the zone with hours of training on end.

Now with the current rules in place there is nothing wrong with this. The rules state they can do it so they do. There is no reason for them to negotiate anything even when the current mechanics added to the game allows for better competition. They know that if they were forced to race for mobs in VP the same as mobs outside of VP they wouldn't be able to lock as much of the current content down. This is why no negotiation will likely get off the ground with the current training rules in VP in place.


Now guys lets not argue with what was allowed on live. The current raiding rules here are different than live as Rogean has pointed out to you all. Now I only ask for a good reason from you Sericx why training should be allowed in VP with this servers rules and mechanics regardless of what was allowed or wasn't on live. You have variance with extended windows and FTE shouts in place that lets you know exactly who engages a mob first. Why would you need training at this point ? It is not a viable mechanic in the current raid scene to determine who has more skill or who wins a race to a mob. It only serves the purpose to raid interfere when you lose or are losing the race.

[musashi1612]

I would agree with sirken on the all guilds need to agree on somthing but we all know thats never gonna happen so exclude the douche bags that you know will not accept the Terms and discuss those Terms with the guilds that are willing to comply Then Maybe Just maybe Sirkens point of making them come to the table will be valid.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See Sirken. This is why no discussion ever gets off the ground right here.

PS- as for the guy that said he will train anyone not in his guild, well, hes not a guild leader, and if his GL tells him to knock it off, he will. but currently its open season, and hunters are gonna hunt

[Valere]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please find me a thread or post or anything from live stating that you could NOT train in VP. Don't worry, i'll wait.

I believe that would come down to universal game rules of training being against policy. For training to be OK in a specific zone or situation there would have to be a specific rule in place to allow that exception.

By your logic It's OK to exploit pathing in every zone that does not specifically state that you can't exploit pathing in that zone.

Unless, of course, I am missing some shard of logic on this point.
-------------------------------------
Everquest Rules of Conduct, Play Nice Policies, # 6 (You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area), last bullet point (Causing intentional experience loss to other players [deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc]).

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PS- as for the guy that said he will train anyone not in his guild, well, hes not a guild leader, and if his GL tells him to knock it off, he will. but currently its open season, and hunters are gonna hunt

Touche

[Zapatos]

I had no failure in understanding what you wrote, Sirken.

The point of VD being corpse camped wasn't to highlight their naivety, it was to show that people WILL take revenge on that kind of behavior and the training spirals out of control. And it wasn't all of tmo, it was roughly 3-5 core individuals who started it.. who still do it... thrive off it and will stay up 20 hours at a time doing it because they love griefing people off this box probably more than the next person loves jerking it.

Oh right and they're the leaders of tmo, thank you zeelot.

[Cecily]

I think the trains give a unique experience we normally wouldnt get on a blue server. The raiding scene is 100% played with a pvp mentality without the pvp, so it's nice to actually be able to kill your rivals in some capacity. Not a huge fan myself, but it's something other than the FTE races for everything else.