Proposed amendment to Scout Roll

[LazyHydras]

Level 55+



Thoughts? Do we still need welfare near-BiS loot on our 9th alts?

[sydbarrett25]

Sure, I am down with having it 60 only, but who cares about my opinion

[Jimjam]

Make it 52s only. This is naggy/vox gear.

60s that want serious gear should go to tov.

[loramin]

The forum's a good place to start building consensus, but if you really want to change the rules you have to convince everyone "on the ground" to buy in.

Even if you get 100% of the people in a forum poll to agree to a change, that won't actually change the agreement, because agreements are determined by (in-game) players.

[Dithien]

52 plus makes sense, although how many sub 52’s actually show up?

[Tilien]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The forum's a good place to start building consensus, but if you really want to change the rules you have to convince everyone "on the ground" to buy in.

Even if you get 100% of the people in a forum poll to agree to a change, that won't actually change the agreement, because agreements are determined by (in-game) players.

Which is weird because if it's GM enforced how can it change roll-to-roll. If everyone but 1 person who show up decide not to help in the fight because the winner is 50 does that mean the other 30 people are going to eat a suspension? Or does that 1 person eat a suspension for turning in?

If there are GM enforced agreements they should be formally determined, or else don't have them be GM enforced.

Having them determined by the people who show up AND having them GM enforced is a bad combination.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tilien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is weird because if it's GM enforced how can it change roll-to-roll. If everyone but 1 person who show up decide not to help in the fight because the winner is 50 does that mean the other 30 people are going to eat a suspension? Or does that 1 person eat a suspension for turning in?

If there are GM enforced agreements they should be formally determined, or else don't have them be GM enforced.

Having them determined by the people who show up AND having them GM enforced is a bad combination.

You're welcome to ask for a refund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But look, this is how the staff does it. They make the players work things out amongst themselves, and then once that's happened they enforce whatever the players agree on.

Honestly it seems like a pretty reasonable way to handle things given that it A) doesn't force anything on the players they don't want, and B) saves the staff the time/hassle of having to come up with rules that all the players can agree to.

Remember, the staff aren't paid Verant employees: they are random people like you and me, who volunteer their time not playing a game so that the rest of us do get to play that game (with enforced rules). Everything is, and should be, optimized for them first (not us).

[Tilien]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're welcome to ask for a refund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But look, this is how the staff does it. They make the players work things out amongst themselves, and then once that's happened they enforce whatever the players agree on.

Honestly it seems like a pretty reasonable way to handle things given that it A) doesn't force anything on the players they don't want, and B) saves the staff the time/hassle of having to come up with rules that all the players can agree to.

Remember, the staff aren't paid Verant employees: they are random people like you and me, who volunteer their time not playing a game so that the rest of us do get to play that game (with enforced rules). Everything is, and should be, optimized for them first (not us).

I was never saying the staff should comply with a certain rule set, but rather llandris had a post saying the staff would enforce certain player agreements which seems to flag them as more "special" than working out a camp dispute.

If there is no "specialness" to the agreement it would be nice for the staff to say so, is all.

Trying to coerce people to run a roll in 2 different ways and petitioning seems like a lot more work for the staff than to simply say "this is the agreement."

[GnomeLuvr]

Obviously, OP is just trying to increase his odds at winning.

If someone does the work to get the faction, get the tools, and get a succor, then in my opinion they have as much right to roll as anyone else. And, yes, if the agreement is that everyone else that shows up to roll helps with the fight, then so be it.

The server has been capped at Velious long enough that most people who show up for scout rolls are rolling for alts. If it's such a big deal to exclude people from the roll, how about we petition the GMs to change the scout quest to only one time per account? Or maybe only allow toons with more than four vowels but less than 7 vowels in their names have a chance? Or maybe break it down by class/race, so that only one combination per day be allowed to roll? Or, better yet, if the current agreement doesn't work in your favor, and you don't like the odds, just don't show up. And if you do show up, don't be a sore loser if you don't win the roll.

I have not done this quest on any of my characters. I would certainly like to have the quest reward on some of my toons, but not so much that I would deny anyone else of the opportunity to get it, regardless of their level.

[Xulia]

Anecdotal, but I have witnessed multiple people outright refuse to participate in Scout Roll pulls if the winner is sub-50. If you believe this anecdote then it illustrates a mentality people already have regarding this loot, namely that they aren't willing to sacrifice their time so someone's level 30 useless at a raid alt can get high-tier gear.

The beauty is that this isn't strictly against the rules and it sends a pretty clear message without the need for direct GM involvement: No low levels unless you bring your own force.