Question for Shaman Gear

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I stand by my original quote, sorry for editing it. Based on your account of how slowly you levelled through 58 and 59, and your "skepticism" of others who are more efficient than you, I think you are bad.

If a monk, who are not known as great soloers is getting the same exp as a shaman, who are known as top-tier soloers... That proves the monk is bad? Logic? Not even once, on your end.

Fungi Fungi Staff and JBB are not going to help levelling as much as epic. I've done both. Is MY original point.

Much faster epic root rotting with Paralyzing Earth than slow tanking. 10% per hour. Compared to your 4% per hour slow-tanking with JBB and Fungi / Fungi Staff.

I sold my Fungi at level 55 to buy Torpor and keep it in my bag. Motivation to hit 60. Haven't had a Fungi on my shaman since. Been able to farm enough plat to last me forever on p99 since then.

You are still ignoring my primary point, which is selling everything for Epic is a bad move anyway, even if you could go from 1 blue an hour to 2 blues an hour. You save 12 hours leveling, but you will spend more than 12 hours farming for Torpor when you are out of money, and are a 60 Shaman with Epic and no Torpor. That is a really bad tradeoff. Level a bit slower with Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + JBB, then sell it all for Torpor and farm that money back faster for Epic or whatever else you want.

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are still ignoring my primary point, which is selling everything for Epic is a bad move anyway, even if you could go from 1 blue an hour to 2 blues an hour. You save 12 hours leveling, but you will spend more than 12 hours farming for Torpor when you are out of money, and are a 60 Shaman with Epic and no Torpor. That is a really bad tradeoff. Level a bit slower with Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + JBB, then sell it all for Torpor and farm that money back faster for Epic or whatever else you want.

Waiting til 60 to get epic on Shaman is not advisable.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Waiting til 60 to get epic on Shaman is not advisable.

I am not sure why you think that, I leveled to 60 with Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + JBB just fine, and I got Torpor immediately at 60 from selling them. If a Monk can level at 1 blue an hour, that is an acceptable amount of time for people soloing. Monks wouldn't solo to 60 otherwise. It isn't like you are soloing slower than other classes.

[zelld52]

You don't need Fungi / Fungi Staff / etc to get 1 blue an hour a shaman. You could do that naked.

You don't need Fungi / Fungi Staff / JBB to get 10% an hour as a shaman. You just need epic.

I'm leaving this thread now, good luck OP. DSM you are bad.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't need Fungi / Fungi Staff / etc to get 1 blue an hour a shaman. You could do that naked.

You don't need Fungi / Fungi Staff / JBB to get 10% an hour as a shaman. You just need epic.

I'm leaving this thread now, good luck OP. DSM you are bad.

You know you have lost the argument when you devolve to insulting people as your primary method of debate.

There is no way a naked Shaman is leveling at the same speed as a Shaman with Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + JBB. If I am just "bad", and a naked Shaman can get 1 blue an hour at 59, that means you can get closer to 2 blues an hour with Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + JBB. This simply weakens your argument further, so I am not sure why you made this claim. Why sell everything for Epic if you can get roughly the same amount of XP per hour as a "good" player with Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + JBB?

You don't need Epic to level quickly. Epic is generally more expensive than Torpor and it is no drop, so it is not advisable to put all your money into Epic. It is better to sell your Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff + JBB for Torpor when you hit 60, then you can quickly get your money back at camps like Fungi King. You can buy Epic and whatever else you want. A level 60 Shaman with Torpor is going to get a lot more cash camp groups than a level 60 Shaman with Epic and no Torpor. A level 60 Shaman with Torpor is also able to solo better cash camps than a level 60 Shaman with Epic and no Torpor.

[Toxigen]

why would you wait til 60 to get epic on shaman?

takes all the fun out of it

pretty sure root rotting 4-6 mobs is far more efficient than face tanking w/ jbb

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why would you wait til 60 to get epic on shaman?

takes all the fun out of it

pretty sure root rotting 4-6 mobs is far more efficient than face tanking w/ jbb

Because you don't need Epic to level quickly. The point of leveling is to get to 60 so you can get Torpor.

If you only have 90k worth of items and plat in total, you have two options:

1. Sell everything, buy Epic, and become broke. You will level faster while trying to farm 60K+ with only Epic and no other key Shaman items/spells.

2. Level quickly with JBB + Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff, sell them to buy Torpor + Malo, and get money for Epic a lot faster using cash camps like Fungi King.

The second option is generally more time efficient, because it is a lot slower to acquire money only using Epic clicks. You end up spending the same amount of time or more farming money as you saved leveling. People aren't going to let you into Fungi King simply because you have Epic. They want Torpor + Malo.

[loramin]

Let me preface this by saying that of course the details will vary based on what you fight, how you fight it, etc. ... but if you do the math, the epic seems clearly better than the Fungi.

Wall of Math inc!

Let's call an average fight two minutes, for simplicity (although it only has to last 1.5 minutes for this math to work). Curse of the Spirits deals roughly 1425 damage in 1.5 minutes. If you recast it after the first cast finishes, you get very minimal damage for the remaining half minute, so let's just ignore that damage, and also let's round down and call it 1.4k damage for the fight.

OP said he was 51, so that means he's using E-Bolt, which produces 3.994 damage per mana and Plague, 4.23 DPM. Let's go with Plague as it's more efficient: if you could magically cast two Plagues at once and have the second deal the same damage as the epic, it would cost you 330 mana (1400/4.23) to get an epics' worth of damage.

Now of course you can't cast two Plagues at once, making the epic significantly more valuable, because it stacks with your other DoTs. But still, let's compare it to the Fungi. The Fungi gives 2.5hp per second, so in a two minute fight you get 300 HP. If you turned that HP into mana with Cannibalize II, you'd get about 0.5 mana per HP,or 150 mana (it varies by level so it's hard to give an exact number). Same deal (in reverse) if the Fungi saves you from having to cast Superior Healing: it gives Shaman about 2hp per mana, so again the Fungi's 300 HP is worth 150 mana.

Even if you assume a two-minute down-time after every fight, that's 600 HP from the fungi, or 300 mana ... vs, the 330 mana's worth of damage from the epic. The epic may even do more damage in a longer fight, and it will do a lot more damage if you fight two or more mobs at once. But most importantly, because it stacks with other DoTs it lets you kill the mob significantly faster, meaning you take less damage (not even factored into my math).

Now to be fair, the epic costs about twice what a fungi costs, and that math shows it isn't twice as good. Also, if you're killing low level (for your level) mobs super-quickly, the Epic doesn't get to do its full damage, and the math changes.

But in general, if your options are 50k plat and a fungi, or no fungi and and an epic, the basic math shows how the epic is more valuable.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...
Wall of Math inc!
...

In general if you take a look at the DPS differences, a Shaman with Epic can kill 6 mobs with 6000 HP in roughly 8 minutes using Epic, Paralyzing Earth, and Venom of the Snake. This costs 460 mana per mob (3x roots per mob assuming no breaks + 1x Venom of the Snake), but you are going to be sitting most of the time, and using cannibalize occasionally to make up for the meditation ticks lost while standing and casting. I say 8 minutes because you need to manage all of these 6 rooted mobs, so you are spending time rerooting and re-Epicing. If you are not slowing the mob, you are taking more damage per root break too.

A Shaman with JBB + Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff can kill roughly 3 mobs in 6 minutes with 6000 HP using 4 JBB clicks + 1 Envenomed Bolt + Pet + Togor's Insects. This is 500 mana per mob. With the Fungi Tunic + Staff you are basically at meditation rates while standing, so you are spending roughly the same mana per mob. You are getting 18 mana/tick with the +30 HP/Tick and the 1200 mana saved per hour via Fungi Staff, and under level 60 you are meditating around that amount. If you can do 1-2 extra clicks of JBB per minute, you will be a bit faster.

Epic Shamans can out-perform JBB + Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff Shamans in the specific situation of having a camp with 4+ mobs, where you are always getting 4+ mobs per root/rot cycle. This assumes you are always going to get a camp like that while leveling. However, Torpor Shamans will farm money much faster than non-Torpor Shamans. The tradeoff of faster leveling is not worth the slower farming speeds once you hit 60. You may save 10 hours per level for 4-5 levels, but you are going to be spending more than 40-50 hours trying to farm 60K+ by Epic clicking vendor trash mobs. You can make more than 60K in 40-50 hours by doing cash camps like Fungi King.

[loramin]

You quoted me, yet ignored everything I wrote.