April fools comes late!

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll take things you say when you're mad, bad, sad, fat for 5000, Alec.

Yeah I agree, your guildmate is all of those things most likely.

Originally Posted by Hotel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hey, dumbass, come vibe to the sweet jazz of you looking like an idiot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJx7...annel=MikoSama

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I agree, your guildmate is all of those things most likely.

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I

[remen]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He pops in the building at 1:55 of the fraps, between 1:55 and 1:59 he's heading neither towards nor away from WL, he's simply running out of the building, he doesn't take a turn in either direction until the 1:59 mark of the fraps (119.64 seconds into the video). At which point he continues pathing back towards his spawn until 2:24 of the fraps (144.36 seconds into the video) where he then stands and kills Zssah before starting back towards WL. Similar to the time spent in the building before his exit the time he spends standing there killing Zssah he's not pathing away from camp, or towards camp. After Zssah dies he immediately starts pathing back towards WL/camp.

119.64 seconds minus 144.36 seconds (thanks youtube stats for nerds!) = 24.72 seconds or, as I've already pointed out numerous times, "1 DA, or about that time". If you look back through the history of UN typically guilds don't bother with a petition if the alleged kite is less than 30 seconds. This one doesn't come anywhere near the 30 second mark. As for the time he spent stuck in the wall/under the world I have no idea why you would hold that against us or any guild for that matter after brand new pathing changes were put in place and no one could've anticipated that happening.

The statue pull was a completely different matter as yes it was a kite but not because of him bugging out, but because you all failed to tag properly at 4 way, so it turned into a kite because of a failed tag, nothing having to do with it being bugged out. It spent more than enough time running through 4 way for someone to get a proper tag on it and continue the pull towards WL. Unfortunately for you all the time it spent pathing away from camp never came into play (even though by that metric it's still a kite because it was pathing away from camp for almost a full minute) because there's a hard line back towards EW that was passed (twice).

I don't know why you keep bringing up statue, I (and our guild) have already agreed that it was an egregious kite and we conceded the next two statues.

The mental gymnastics you have gone through to try and find a way to justify your kite of KT is as impressive as it is sad. This is a great example though of the lengths to which your guild will go to lawyerquest every little aspect of any situation to twist it in your favor. Some convoluted explanation of why the first four seconds shouldn't count, when the simple fact is that he was heading in the wrong direction because of a bad assumption by your puller.

Even if we grant you those first 4 seconds, your assertion that you shouldn't count the time KT spent killing your necro doesn't hold water. A mob is being kited when it isn't pathing to the location where you are pulling it. Imagine if we were pulling KT, and a warrior in our guild popped defensive and attacked KT in four way to buy extra time. Would you say that this time period doesn't count as part of a kite because KT isn't pathing away from the camp during that time period?

The facts are really simple here, anyone with eyes watching from an unbiased point of view can watch that video and see that KT spends 33 seconds not heading towards your camp. That's a kite.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by remen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know why you keep bringing up statue, I (and our guild) have already agreed that it was an egregious kite and we conceded the next two statues.

The mental gymnastics you have gone through to try and find a way to justify your kite of KT is as impressive as it is sad. This is a great example though of the lengths to which your guild will go to lawyerquest every little aspect of any situation to twist it in your favor. Some convoluted explanation of why the first four seconds shouldn't count, when the simple fact is that he was heading in the wrong direction because of a bad assumption by your puller.

Even if we grant you those first 4 seconds, your assertion that you shouldn't count the time KT spent killing your necro doesn't hold water. A mob is being kited when it isn't pathing to the location where you are pulling it. Imagine if we were pulling KT, and a warrior in our guild popped defensive and attacked KT in four way to buy extra time. Would you say that this time period doesn't count as part of a kite because KT isn't pathing away from the camp during that time period?

The facts are really simple here, anyone with eyes watching from an unbiased point of view can watch that video and see that KT spends 33 seconds not heading towards your camp. That's a kite.

Imagine all the time that your leaders have stated that you only count the time the mob is pathing away from camp. It's a standard that GM's set. There's no mental gymnastics going on, unless you're accusing your own leadership and GM's of it. I'm using the exact language they use when arguing something is or isn't a kite.

12/31/2020 from the UN

Originally Posted by Detoxx

Thats cool and all but the "kite" was less than the allowed 18-24 seconds. Your guild argued on PD, and won, that kite time is only counted as time going away from camp. This Dain was 17 seconds tops.

1/21/2021 from the UN

Originally Posted by Furoar

Takish, like Dain, did not move away from our camp for more than 24 seconds (or about the time of one DA)

1/25/2021 From raid petitions Response to 1/18 Tunare

Originally Posted by Nibblewitz

Dica’s video shows Takish is moving away from Fr/AG’s camp between 00:22 and 00:44. This 22-second delay is sanctioned by the stalling rules.

There's no justifying anything. It's not a kite by definition. Learn the rules and consult with your leaders who obviously know what they're talking about and you obviously do not. The language used has never been "not heading towards camp" and always been X mob spent Y time "moving away from camp". The amount of time he stands there killing Zssah is by the very language your leaders have used in the past not time "moving away from camp" as KT is not pathing away from camp during this time.

Your example of a warrior gaining agro during the pull and popping defensive to hold the mob for more time falls very far out of what is listed in Q12 "The spirit of the rule (and what we are looking to do here)". In that situation it's obvious the warrior is not helping to pull the mob in he's just stalling for time and actively trying to tank the mob. Zssah was actively trying to pull KT in, he wasn't trying to stall or tank KT to buy time. If Zssah was doing that he would've popped DA and held KT at the spot where KT killed him for a lot longer than he did.

The only mental gymnastics going on here is yours and your own leaders don't agree with what you're saying.

[Hideousclaw]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine all the time that your leaders have stated that you only count the time the mob is pathing away from camp. It's a standard that GM's set. There's no mental gymnastics going on, unless you're accusing your own leadership and GM's of it. I'm using the exact language they use when arguing something is or isn't a kite.

12/31/2020 from the UN


1/21/2021 from the UN


1/25/2021 From raid petitions Response to 1/18 Tunare


There's no justifying anything. It's not a kite by definition. Learn the rules and consult with your leaders who obviously know what they're talking about and you obviously do not. The language used has never been "not heading towards camp" and always been X mob spent Y time "moving away from camp". The amount of time he stands there killing Zssah is by the very language your leaders have used in the past not time "moving away from camp" as KT is not pathing away from camp during this time.

Your example of a warrior gaining agro during the pull and popping defensive to hold the mob for more time falls very far out of what is listed in Q12 "The spirit of the rule (and what we are looking to do here)". In that situation it's obvious the warrior is not helping to pull the mob in he's just stalling for time and actively trying to tank the mob. Zssah was actively trying to pull KT in, he wasn't trying to stall or tank KT to buy time. If Zssah was doing that he would've popped DA and held KT at the spot where KT killed him for a lot longer than he did.

The only mental gymnastics going on here is yours and your own leaders don't agree with what you're saying.

Riots Defense, first fraps provided: KT heads towards throne room at 1:59 upon leaving the little building he pops up in.

KT kills Zssah and heads back at 2:29

1:59 - 2:29 = 30sec. DA length is 18-24sec. No gymnastics from this end calling that a kite. It pathed AWAY from WL ZL for 30sec from the moment it came out of the building and turned away from WL. Its a kite, 100%. But now you shall provide your gymnastics as to why my math is wrong. he doesnt bobble to buy time. He walks on a straight path towards his throne room following the primary ripper who made a mistake and ran the wrong way.

No intentional kite, just a kite because of poor play. Sometimes it be like that, and it be a concession. Or it be a petition because y'all can't own it that you made a mistake.

[Hideousclaw]

Its closer to 29.5sec of kite, if you count frame by frame. But regardless, still a kite.

[remen]

Croco, all of those examples are to clarify that the time of the mob resuming its normal pathing aren't part of the definition of a kite. IE you pull the mob in the wrong direction for 18 seconds. You don't count the following 18 seconds as it returns to the spot the kite started. In the KT video posted, he doesn't return to the status of being pulled until 33 seconds after the kite begins. Or even if you want to be as generous as Daewen, it was 29.5 seconds. It's a kite. I would also ask why your puller didn't run back towards the four way once you guys realized KT was heading back to the throne room?

If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, you would take the gold. I look forward to your response [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Croco]

Originally Posted by remen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Croco, all of those examples are to clarify that the time of the mob resuming its normal pathing aren't part of the definition of a kite. IE you pull the mob in the wrong direction for 18 seconds. You don't count the following 18 seconds as it returns to the spot the kite started. In the KT video posted, he doesn't return to the status of being pulled until 33 seconds after the kite begins. Or even if you want to be as generous as Daewen, it was 29.5 seconds. It's a kite. I would also ask why your puller didn't run back towards the four way once you guys realized KT was heading back to the throne room?

If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, you would take the gold. I look forward to your response [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Both you and Daewen are wrong as I've already pointed out in a prior post.

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He pops in the building at 1:55 of the fraps, between 1:55 and 1:59 he's heading neither towards nor away from WL, he's simply running out of the building, he doesn't take a turn in either direction until the 1:59 mark of the fraps (119.64 seconds into the video). At which point he continues pathing back towards his spawn until 2:24 of the fraps (144.36 seconds into the video) where he then stands and kills Zssah before starting back towards WL. Similar to the time spent in the building before his exit the time he spends standing there killing Zssah he's not pathing away from camp, or towards camp. After Zssah dies he immediately starts pathing back towards WL/camp.

144.36 seconds minus 119.64 seconds equals 24.72 seconds. Well within the spirit of the rules and far below the 30 second threshold that both guilds have used to determine if they were going to petition or not. By your leadership's own words you count the time he's pathing away from camp so the time he takes pathing out of the commoner building and the time he takes standing there killing Zssah aren't counted. It's crystal clear.

[remen]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Both you and Daewen are wrong as I've already pointed out in a prior post.

Your opinion, and creative interpretation of the video has been made clear. Situations like these are why we sadly need objective third parties to step in. There's no need for us to go back and forth further. Eventually the GMs will tell us who is correct.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by remen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your opinion, and creative interpretation of the video has been made clear. Situations like these are why we sadly need objective third parties to step in. There's no need for us to go back and forth further. Eventually the GMs will tell us who is correct.

Completely agree with you there. I think the biggest reason why we are where we currently are is there's no one steering the ship. We need active GM's that make decisive rulings and hand down real punishments instead of just slaps on the wrist.