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Old 05-16-2019, 01:51 PM
stebbins99 stebbins99 is offline

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Bardp1999, as usual, has some awesome input on necros and their viability outside of soloing. Shadowbond is an awesome spell, to be sure. One option not listed above, albeit slower (and safer) exp for later on:

Have the monk pull + "tank and spank" while the necro employs heals, CC, and rogue pet (for backstabbing damage) at 53. Monk should have little issues keeping mob's back turned to rogue pet.

I am pretty sure that lvls 54-60 take about as much time as lvls 1-54; thus, if you guys want to keep your same toons and level-up a bit more, you have a solid combo to look forward to. Fear kiting definitely sucks when you are the melee trying to chase around a feared mob. *Maybe* it would be a bit more fun if you were backstabbing, ie a rogue

Both classes having FD is simply awesome, too.
Old 05-17-2019, 06:23 AM
zarza zarza is offline

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i remember nec+rog duoing in WL geonid was fun

necro never had lom and dps was enough even necro not use dot them much
Old 05-17-2019, 11:44 AM
Raev Raev is offline
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Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I also charmed a lot starting pretty early (20s). In a group setting where you are only focusing on DPS, charming is fine. I was more referring to the HS basement style of solo/duo play where at 45 you are going to struggle to keep mana and life up due to not having all the tools in the tool bag.
I had exactly the opposite experience.

Enchanters' multiple AE stun/mez lines, tash, and charisma work much better in a group than Necromancers' ST, DA, and Feign Death, which usually involve a rude surprise for some other party member. Solo the Necro toolkit is clearly better.

The animation is weak in a group while the skeleton is quite reasonable. Troxx posted some parses and the skeleton was perhaps half of the dps of the charmed pet. Throw in the nukes/dots you'll get off without having to waste mana on runes and recharms and skip one wipe every 4-5 hours (impossible to avoid with the limited necro toolkit unless your groupmates are on the ball) and you aren't so far behind. This is especially true before L50, when you can't reliably charm L40+ NPCs which get huge increases in DA/DW skills.

Charm interferes with everything else a Necromancer does. You can't FD split (and Necromancers are surprisingly good here) because charm will break, and you have to be careful funneling your health to someone else because the last thing you want is a charm break at 50% hp without cleric buffs.

Put it all together and I don't think charm is an obvious play for the grouping Necromancer at any point. If you have solid support from your group or geometry that you can exploit, great. If not, the skeleton works reasonably well. I actually had the best luck with charm playing 'bard style' where I would pull multiple mobs in KC/Guk and charm two against each other while the group killed the other ones. Most groups will require a bit of a mental adjustment to play around a Necromancer, but sometimes you get twinks of 60 Necros who enjoy it.

On the other hand, I charm soloed easily and effectively basically as soon as I got Screaming Terror at L24. I definitely agree that 49 is a huge level here due to increased Lich/Bond of Death efficiency and increasing mana pool size, but everything works fine as long as you are conservative about area selection and engaging with decent HP/mana levels (I never was). There is some downtime involved, but it's still way faster than anything else.
Last edited by Raev; 05-17-2019 at 11:47 AM..
Old 05-17-2019, 08:47 PM
DMN DMN is offline
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in some cases soloing can be more effective, since you are functionally doubling your charms damage output with minimal mana commitment. It's also much more dangerous, too. Necros have no fast stuns so you are hoping to channel out a screaming terror, sometimes getting your face beat in quite badly and potentially requiring a FD attempt or CR. And never underestimate the RNG to break your root and charm at around the same time(90% of my necro deaths fell into this category).

When solo,you aren't going to want to waste your mana hasting and you aren't going to want to give your charm a DW either since you'd prefer both your charm and the next enemy to be dead at around the same time, but In a group you can load your charm pet up with weapon/buffs, potentially doubling its damage. You will no longer have to worry about breaking your charm to avoid stolen exp Obviously it gets better with more levels as your haste improves and the pets stats scale more favorable for charming.

That said I'd avoid charms group if the team doesn't inlclude a healer/stunner/mezer. This stricly about dungeon leveling. Outdoors is a whole different matter and opens up things like fear kiting and whatnot.
Old 05-18-2019, 02:52 AM
Bardp1999 Bardp1999 is offline

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I've been 60 a long time now so my perspective may be out of whack. Plus I have flowing thought 1 and 2, haste pants, and a zlandicar heart. The troubles of the lower class are lost on me.
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Last edited by Bardp1999; 05-18-2019 at 02:56 AM..
Old 05-18-2019, 03:36 AM
Izmael Izmael is offline
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As much as I find solo enchanter tedious, boring, slow and anti-social, I find solo necro awesome.

Finishing mobs with a lifetap vs casting an enchanter nuke is just so much better and efficient. You kill the mob, you heal yourself, you get full exp, all in one single spell.

FD allows you to AFK for undefinite periods of time (THE main attraction of soloing as far as I'm concerned), while on an enchanter you can't really do it unless you're a DE and even then, a level 5 skel will break your hide.

Got whacked a bit? Tap an eye and go on.
Old 05-18-2019, 03:55 AM
Tethler Tethler is offline
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My necro is 48 currently and I've been duoing off and on recently. Have had some great duos with shaman and enchanter. The synergy is nice with shaman in particular because of regen, necro healing canni damage, and shaman dots. I even had a great duo with a warrior because he had solid enough AC that I could keep him always topped off with necro heals.

Really looking forward to 49 spells.
  • Tethler Tallwood - 57 Druid
  • Solinius Swiftshank - 55 Rogue
  • Kaisei - 54 Necro
  • Kamaohoru Kitsui - 52 Monk
  • Brobeard Manstache - 44 Cleric
  • Sickburn Needsaloe - 42 Mage
  • Gukaan - 41 Shadowknight
Old 05-18-2019, 08:45 AM
Raev Raev is offline
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Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
As much as I find solo enchanter tedious, boring, slow and anti-social, I find solo necro awesome.
I definitely agree, but I think the root cause is the Necromancer's ability to take risks backstopped by Feign Death. Both will level fastest on a diet of dark blue floor NPCs, but the Necro at least can try more difficult areas while the Enchanter will rapidly enter a frustrating twilight zone where every hour of hard-earned XP is periodically vaporized at the whims of the RNG. Amusingly, at 60 this reverses: the Necro is helpless against summoning mobs while the Enchanter can start exploiting the WC cap.

Also, to answer the OP's question, Necromancers are fantastic solo and duo but mediocre in larger groups and raids. The biggest question is whether or not your friend can 'drive' aka handle FD splits and charming and how you feel about that. Ultimately I would suggest that you play what you want and make friends to mitigate any weaknesses. Necro is quite flexible there.
Old 05-18-2019, 03:11 PM
GnomeCaptain GnomeCaptain is offline

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Enchanter & Necro is really great.
Old 05-20-2019, 11:16 AM
1asdfasdf1 1asdfasdf1 is offline

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Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Got whacked a bit? Tap an eye and go on.
Ah yes, many of us have the no-longer-dropping 350,000pp Holgresh Elder Beads. Just tap an eye while you're levelling. Who doesn't start the game at level 1 with half a million plat?
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