Single mob camping rules?

[wtsgoodtime]

Originally Posted by Zipity [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you log into dead mobs, and then both didn’t respawn, I’d say you did the right thing by continuing to let him keep the camp, had both spawned then you’d have solid argument to take over depending on how much it was worth it to you. Like ya said always something else to do on EQ I usually won’t move in on a contested camp if I came there and saw everything was dead until I see the camp fully repop(make sure you run fraps of all the mobs popping everyone is a lawyer here!)
#bodycamsforalltoons2019

I hadn't thought of it that way, but it is a good point. Does the entire camp have to respawn before the grace period starts? I do have obs setup, but I don't often run it.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, if you want to dance in Rants and Flames, that's where this sort of thing belongs. Not here.

I don't quite know what to think of this... it kind of sounds like you care more about forum rules than in game rules. Either way, I have nothing against you personally, but I would like to know if I was in the wrong to wait for both mobs to respawn and then what the grace period is. From what I have heard previously, it is something like 1-2 minutes, not 15 minutes.

[Gatordash]

Originally Posted by wtsgoodtime [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't quite know what to think of this... it kind of sounds like you care more about forum rules than in game rules.

How dare you, no one likes discussing game rules more than Loramin.

[Agreed]

edit: I know this thread started w/ single mob camps in mind, but I am hoping to take advantage of this level of mod engagement to seek clarification on a common camp that seems like it might not be legit according to the rules, even if the way it is done does make sense.

How bout Goblins in Warslik's Woods? As a lower level I could never level there because it's constantly a goblin murderfest for high levels trying to get Grachnist to spawn and drop the earring. Then, as a higher level, I did it myself - and I get it, if you're after that earring you have to constantly kill the WHOLE FREAKIN' FORT including Grachnist and Pit Fighter Dob that can spawn at any goblin's spot within it, and both of which are high enough level that if you are trying to level as a lower level there you're basically screwed the moment one of them shows up in what you'd be trying to call your camp within the fort itself.

The game design seems to favor that area being dominated by high levels aiming for the drop, imagine if Lord Shin Rae could pop up in any spot orcs spawn at in EC but minus the huge # of high levels to take care of the problem so the newbies can keep going - time to find something else to do for the lower level group suddenly.

But, I can't see how the whole goblin fort at WW can be considered a camp under the rules here. I only ever see it done this way, but is it in line w/ the rules? What should players do with that to avoid it turning into a nasty FTE-fest? When you've been clearing the fort for several hours to try to get the desired spawn, if someone could just come and see a Grachnist up that you haven't engaged yet because you're still running from the other side of the fort and it just popped... That sucks. And I have seen people for the most part respect the camp, respect the effort that goes into killing all the goblins perpetually 'til you get a drop.

Having experienced it relatively recently from both perspectives, I think personally it makes sense as a camp and I think the higher levels doing it are doing the most logical solution to the problem that the fort presents, but is it in-rules or player agreement or what?

[NegaStoat]

For the Goblins in Warslik's woods, the area is divided pretty sharply with cut lines of sight from walls, buildings, and the gorge with the bridge that has additional spawns on the other side. If you are solo, duo, or with a group and approach a person farming Grachnist from every available spawn, I'd just select an area you plan to draw spawns from and politely state your intentions.

Seriously, what is the farmer going to do? Claim they have the whole thing? Of course they can't. The "I'm here first" deal isn't going to cut it when you're talking about an area with 20+ total spawns. The bloodgill goblins in Lake of Ill Omen are the same deal where folks shrug and divide things out even if they'd want to be greedy and take all they can handle. And if the farmer become snotty and holds their ground, by all means record how things were handled with video or screenshots and feed the flames over in RnF. It would make for a great show.

[Agreed]

In every case that I've seen this in person, actually they do claim that they have the whole thing, and that seems to be largely how it works in practice on this server whether it is in keeping with the rules or not. I have seen lower levels negotiate a portion of the fort for their XPing with the understanding that if Grachnist or Pit Fighter Dobby spawns, the higher level will take care of it for them. Which I think is about as equitable as a resolution between players can get in that case. But, in general, if you are High Level #2 showing up and High Level #1 is already killing the fort, you move on and that's considered their camp while they're present and active.

[aaezil]

Unless theres a gm ruling saying that that zone is a “dungeon” then you can only camp 1 spawn point in that zone as far as i understand the rules. Maybe a gm will chime in again.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Agreed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In every case that I've seen this in person, actually they do claim that they have the whole thing, and that seems to be largely how it works in practice on this server whether it is in keeping with the rules or not. I have seen lower levels negotiate a portion of the fort for their XPing with the understanding that if Grachnist or Pit Fighter Dobby spawns, the higher level will take care of it for them. Which I think is about as equitable as a resolution between players can get in that case. But, in general, if you are High Level #2 showing up and High Level #1 is already killing the fort, you move on and that's considered their camp while they're present and active.

You've just described player convention camps vs. GM enforced camps.

When the staff enforces camp rules, their goal is to force players to share scarce resources. Thus, the rules work towards that goal, and outside of dungeons:

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you can only camp 1 spawn point in that zone

That's it: you and whoever you are competing with get 1 spawn point each, and everything else you both have to FTE (ie. you have to be the "first to engage" the monster and it becomes your's). And this is only when someone else shows up; before that you can camp as much as you want.

Inside dungeons you can potentially camp a single "camp" (typically a single room) instead of just 1 spawn point, but again the focus is on forcing players to share the content as much as possible. This is why Crypt in Seb is commonly considered a single camp by players, but if pressed the staff will let individual players camp individual rooms in it.

And that leads us to player-defined camps, which instead are focused on creating a group of mobs that a single player or group can kill within the zone's respawn time. For instance, a single player can solo the LFay Sisters (or a lot of the mobs around Grachnist, or a lot of Bloodgills ... or even all four rooms of the Crypt) in the time it takes for them to respawn, so all of those places are commonly considered a single camp by players.

IF a player wants they can ask the GMs to force a player to share the Sister spawns, in violation of the player defined camp. The staff will back them on this, because it's an outdoor zone and you can only have one spawn point in an outdoor zone ... but they will strongly encourage players to respect the player-defined camp first.

From their perspective, both parties would probably be happier if player #1 could just keep doing all the Sisters, and player #2 went to a different area. But since the server rules force sharing whenever two or more players both want those resources, they will enforce splitting Sisters if a player really wants (server rules trump player-defined camps). Some people believe this sort of thing will happen on Green, because so many players will be competing for popular camps like Sisters.

And of course all of the above is now covered on http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Menden]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've just described player convention camps vs. GM enforced camps.

When the staff enforces camp rules, their goal is to force players to share scarce resources. Thus, the rules work towards that goal, and outside of dungeons:



That's it: you and whoever you are competing with get 1 spawn point each, and everything else you both have to FTE (ie. you have to be the "first to engage" the monster and it becomes your's). And this is only when someone else shows up; before that you can camp as much as you want.

Inside dungeons you can potentially camp a single "camp" (typically a single room) instead of just 1 spawn point, but again the focus is on forcing players to share the content as much as possible. This is why Crypt in Seb is commonly considered a single camp by players, but if pressed the staff will let individual players camp individual rooms in it.

And that leads us to player-defined camps, which instead are focused on creating a group of mobs that a single player or group can kill within the zone's respawn time. For instance, a single player can solo the LFay Sisters (or a lot of the mobs around Grachnist, or a lot of Bloodgills ... or even all four rooms of the Crypt) in the time it takes for them to respawn, so all of those places are commonly considered a single camp by players.

IF a player wants they can ask the GMs to force a player to share the Sister spawns, in violation of the player defined camp. The staff will back them on this, because it's an outdoor zone and you can only have one spawn point in an outdoor zone ... but they will strongly encourage players to respect the player-defined camp first.

From their perspective, both parties would probably be happier if player #1 could just keep doing all the Sisters, and player #2 went to a different area. But since the server rules force sharing whenever two or more players both want those resources, they will enforce splitting Sisters if a player really wants (server rules trump player-defined camps). Some people believe this sort of thing will happen on Green, because so many players will be competing for popular camps like Sisters.

And of course all of the above is now covered on http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty accurate. EQ is a very social game, we expect players to communicate and work things out between themselves. You have no idea how many players are very quick to /petition instead of opening communication with the other player(s).

People keep bringing up the WW Goblins, it's an open outdoor zone... so FTE. But really, if you see someone keeping it clear you have a couple options.
1. Move on.
2. Split the spawns up.
3. Help clear.

Sitting there waiting for the named to spawn without helping is a pretty shitty thing to do.


Like I've said before, we don't want to get involved in camp disputes. Try to work things out, keep the hysterics down. It's just pixels.

edit: I added some stuff

[Agreed]

I don't see it causing problems very often, just misunderstandings when lower levels who haven't been in the area (a pretty select group tbh at this point) don't know it's actually a pretty bad place to level in the zone since the higher level mobs will wreck a low group & giants are just way better and pretty close

Thanks for the thoughts and perspectives!

[unleashedd]

the greed is still strong here - players claim camps on roamers in outdoor zones, even threaten others with GM involvement, unwilling to share. this thread should be sticky, but not everyone reads forums...