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#1
01-09-2015, 01:40 AM
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AC Seeming to have little to no impact
Been doing some HoT / Master of the Guard and I am seeing little to no statistical difference in tanking between 1200ac and drastically lower AC. Do we have any idea on the formula being used at all?
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Checkraise Dragonslayer <Retired>
"My armor color matches my playstyle" | ||
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#2
01-09-2015, 05:39 AM
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i think ac scales down above 1000 (or whatever number it's set at) drastically, much like int and wisdom there's no point in getting more than a certain number (around 210?). confirm / deny?
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#3
01-12-2015, 08:45 PM
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not true. AC is a stat which currently on live, does, and always has operated on a bell curve. It was revanped in the SOF era after nearly every class was capable of reaching ac values that trivialized group content when raid geared, while simultaneously causing group geared characters to get destroyed by group mobs. This anomaly stemmed from developer attempts toward providing challenging group content to raiders, and in the end they found the only way they could fix the disparity was to revamp the tables.
With that said, when a raid tank was sitting in top end raid gear with maximized ac group content was classicly and still is currently, rarely if ever hitting u at max value. Tbf, there is a point at which u are seeing minimum hit so often where more ac is not really an effective gear decision on LIVE, but as it currently stands mob attack values throughout p99 are substantially higher than they were in classic. Either its outright coded incorrectly, or its an intentional sleight to add "epicness" to the group content on p99. In maximized ac from raid gear, P99 kunark era tanks are seeing little if any difference from group geared tanks in parsing toward the low end of the DI table and are forced to counter this primarily with larger hp pools which does little to improve the efficacy of the healers responsible for sustaining the damage, aside from buying an extra round of combat or 3 per ch. It's not surprising though. When it takes 5 slows in a row to slow a mob 4 to 6 levels blue to you at a camp like fungi king despite it being tashed and maloed, its pretty telling that things like mobattack and MR are drastically exaggerated on P99. | ||
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Last edited by Throndor; 01-12-2015 at 08:49 PM..
Reason: typo- sentance structure
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#4
01-12-2015, 11:45 PM
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Back during live velious there were rumors about ac being broken, but the main tank in the raid still wanted the druid hp buff that resulted in like 5more total ac than the cleric one.
Trouble slowing doesn't sound that odd too the golem and deeper areas of seb used to be pretty hardcore luck required to land spells in 2000 too from what I remember. | ||
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#5
01-25-2015, 03:06 AM
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Hmm. Mitigation seems to be scaling pretty well within my means of testing it.
All data is a 60 Iks Monk getting hit by the same level 59 Crystal Destroyer in Velks (max hit 350, min hit 81) for roughly 10 minutes. All AC values were with identical buffs (aego) and achieved by removing gear down to 877. To get below that I had to load up on plat to get some AC penalty going on. 1171 AC --- Total damage: 32455 --- Avg hit: 186 --- Swings: 399 --- Defended: 100 (25.1%) --- Hit: 174 (43.6%) --- Missed: 125 (31.3%) --- Accuracy: 58.2% --- Dodged: 18 (5.7%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 67 (16.8%) --- Riposted: 15 (4.5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%) 1070 AC --- Total damage: 44798 --- Avg hit: 199 --- Swings: 481 --- Defended: 112 (23.3%) --- Hit: 225 (46.8%) --- Missed: 144 (29.9%) --- Accuracy: 61% --- Dodged: 17 (4.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 75 (15.6%) --- Riposted: 20 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%) 969 AC --- Total damage: 40925 --- Avg hit: 210 --- Swings: 447 --- Defended: 115 (25.7%) --- Hit: 194 (43.4%) --- Missed: 138 (30.9%) --- Accuracy: 58.4% --- Dodged: 28 (7.8%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 68 (15.2%) --- Riposted: 19 (5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%) 877 AC (naked + aego) --- Total damage: 45533 --- Avg hit: 229 --- Swings: 498 --- Defended: 142 (28.5%) --- Hit: 198 (39.8%) --- Missed: 158 (31.7%) --- Accuracy: 55.6% --- Dodged: 28 (7.3%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 92 (18.5%) --- Riposted: 22 (5.4%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%) 770 AC (naked + aego + enough weight to drop my AC that far) --- Total damage: 45136 --- Avg hit: 246 --- Swings: 436 --- Defended: 103 (23.6%) --- Hit: 183 (42%) --- Missed: 150 (34.4%) --- Accuracy: 55% --- Dodged: 19 (5.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 66 (15.1%) --- Riposted: 18 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%) I will try out MotG or some other much higher level mob when I have the time.
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Last edited by Schortt; 02-13-2015 at 03:44 PM..
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#6
01-28-2015, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
As far as this data shows you're taking roughly 10% less dmg per hit per 100ac increase below 1k AC and about 6% less per 100 AC beyond there? 400+ AC getting you 25% less incoming dmg based solely on average damage per hit (what AC directly affects, right?) And per Youlaths Data, shows you took roughly 10% less dmg ~850AC vs ~1150AC which isn't in line with the monk parse shown... Does anyone have parsing showing # of hits for Max dmg as one of the figures? RNG will play a factor always but I feel # of hits for max dmg being diminished, # of min dmg hits increased, as well as overall impact of of RNG average hits would be what AC affects, but I know nothing about any of it, purely speculation as to how I'd imagine it working for dice roll dps/mitigation system | |||
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Last edited by Bodybagger; 01-28-2015 at 11:39 AM..
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#7
01-28-2015, 01:06 PM
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One important thing to keep in mind is that mobs have a 1-20 interval they can hit on + their damage bonus. If you have a mob that has a min hit of 201 and a max hit of 220 (200 damage bonus), it's not going to seem like ac is doing as much.
To really calculate the effects of AC we need to determine how it changes the average interval hit. Maybe going from 600 ac to 1100 ac changes the average hit on a mobs interval from 17 to 6. This can be big, especially for mobs with low damage bonuses and high DIs. Correct method to parse AC: Determine mobs minimum hit and damage interval. Subtract damage interval from min hit to determine damage bonus. Now, figure out the average and median interval hits, not just the average overall hit. Here's an example. A mob has a damage bonus of 120, and an interval of 9. This leaves us with a a minimum hit of 129 (120 + 1*9), and a max hit of 300 (120 + 20*9). The mob can therefore hit anywhere in that range in intervals of 9: 129, 138, 147, 156, etc. If parsing at 600 ac, you got an average hit of 255 you know that the mobs average interval hit is 17.2 (255-100 = 155/9 ~= 17.2). If you then parse at 1100 ac and get an average hit of 200 you know the mobs average interval is (200-100 = 100/9 ~= 11.1). That's a huge change in theoretically removable damage (damage bonus damage can't be removed) Sorry to be redundant on that, but it's important to make that clear if you want AC parses to be meaningful. What mob you parse with matters. Ultimately I bet we're going to see a pretty linear change in average interval hit, on a per mob basis, as AC varies. If anyone wants to provide those min/max/interval numbers on existing parses I'd be happy to plug the data in. | ||
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#8
02-13-2015, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
I wonder if a plate class would experience different findings than a monk. | |||
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#9
03-24-2015, 10:22 PM
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Monks underweight have the same ac return as knights. So you cant compare any plate class. You have to compare them to sk/pal. Wars in lead then sk/pal/mnk (underweight), then the rest of the plate classes, then chain, leather, cloth. Monks overweight are on the leather scale. Over weight on a monk doesnt mean that current weight is higher than current STR either. So his agi doesnt change when he goes over the mnk weight. Which at 60 is 20.9. Higher than that drops your ac on a curve to a certain point. So he could incrementally increase his weight to further drop the AC without dropping to the agi penalty.
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