Game of Thrones

[azeth]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not the one making up my own definition of words and denying what the dictionary actually says.

P.S. Got any examples of female redemption arcs in GoT yet?

Got any examples of a female who needs one? I know you're not gonna say Cersei...

[Thorondor]

P.S. I'll be grooming and teaching our daughters how to exploit your stupidity to catapult themselves into success as well.

It's actually easier to instruct, and delegate to the lionesses then it is to do the work, myself, in the long run. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[maskedmelon]

feminism is garbage because it teaches women that they are inferior and should waste their time combatting phantom oppression rather than just kicking ass and taking what's theirs. and it does this while exalting masculunity and deriding femininity in women. there's a reason it has fallen to the fringe. it made sense when women actually were physically repressed by men, but now only serves to coddle broken egos and excuse failure.

[Thorondor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

feminism is garbage because it teaches women that they are inferior and should waste their time combatting phantom oppression rather than just kicking ass and taking what's theirs. and it does this while exalting masculunity and deriding femininity in women. there's a reason it has fallen to the fringe. it made sense when women actually were physically repressed by men, but now only serves to coddle broken egos and excuse failure.

Yes, the subtext of affirmative action is that women are sub-par and need reduced standards, or men excluded entirely, to be able to compete with men. This is the belief of those pushing contemporary policies.

On another note, if the pay gap exists, and I'm an employer, and women are just as capable as men, then why would I hire men at all? I mean, I can get the same quality for "9%" less if I hire, exclusively, women, yeah? Are feminicists saying that men who own companies are hurting their own profit margin, intentionally, just out some sort of sordid sense of comradery with fellow men?

[DoucLangur]

So TL,DR: GoT thread evolved into male gamers explaining feminism

Did I get that right? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/Slozem
(white man who never felt threatened by feminists)

[DMN]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you guys read the same article as me, or did you just get through a paragraph, think "femizazi!" and run off?

The article I read made a very valid point about redemption arcs, both in GoT and in general. The very valid point it made was that men almost exclusively get the redemption arcs: women don't.

I already debunked this "very valid point". Melisandre has one of the most comprehensive redemption arcs. And between shireen and renly she probably had the deepest pit to scrawl out from.

[loramin]

You all have a very strange way of looking at the world.

If this was a fantasy novel and the orcs were oppressing their slave elves, would you complain that the rebels are teaching the elves that they are inferior when they point out the fact that the elves are enslaved?

Women are inferior in our society. That's not even a debate, it's a fact. It used to be incredibly overt: they literally weren't allowed to vote for most of the history of democracy.

But now it's a lot more subtle stuff ... like this article. If you're male, as I am, you can watch the most popular show on TV and see multiple stories about a man who fucks up, then becomes a better person and redeems himself. Similarly, you can see such stories repeated all over popular media (eg. Avengers). But if you're a women, you can't.

Now you can't on one hand say that doesn't matter, and then at the same time talk about how significant Game of Thrones is for our culture. It matters that half our society doesn't get stories to look up to. And if you truly love your wives/daughters whoever you should want them to get to have characters they can look to in stories just like you have.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I already debunked this "very valid point". Melisandre has one of the most comprehensive redemption arc. And between shireen and renly she probably had the deepest pit to scrawl out from.

Please. Do you even understand what a redemption arc is? Hint: it's what Theo got (a story) and not what Melisandre got (nothing).

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I already debunked this "very valid point". Melisandre has one of the most comprehensive redemption arcs. And between shireen and renly she probably had the deepest pit to scrawl out from.

I changed my mind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Mel doesn't need to be redeemed. She's the avatar of a divine horror, Theon is just some guy.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I changed my mind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Mel doesn't need to be redeemed. She's the avatar of a divine horror, Theon is just some guy.

And that's just it: there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a character who's an avatar of divine horror. Melisandre does not need a redemption arc, nor does any individual character. This isn't a character problem, it's a story problem. And not even that, it's a stories problem.

Similarly, there is nothing wrong with a hero being a straight male white guy. Nothing. But it's the bigger picture, the forest from the trees, that you have to look at.

When (almost) every story is about a straight white guy, in a society made up of lots of other types of people, and meanwhile all those other types of people only get to be one-dimensional props in the straight white guy's story, how is that fair? Why doesn't everyone else in that society get to have stories of heroes that are like them?

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And that's just it: there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a character who's an avatar of divine horror. Melisandre does not need a redemption arc, nor does any individual character. This isn't a character problem, it's a story problem. And not even that, it's a stories problem.

Similarly, there is nothing wrong with a hero being a straight male white guy. Nothing. But it's the bigger picture, the forest from the trees, that you have to look at.

When (almost) every story is about a straight white guy, in a society made up of lots of other types of people, and meanwhile all those other types of people only get to be one-dimensional props in the straight white guy's story, how is that fair? Why doesn't everyone else in that society get to have stories of heroes that are like them?

Who killed the Night King?