So where is the Iksar Betrayer spawn now?

[Leontius]

If you would like to take a group to Chardok and camp anything, feel free. People disrupting the zone for normal groups will be subject to disciplinary action per the PNP, and it does not matter if they were there first. AE groups must work around normal groups, not the other way around.

And for people saying no one ever XP'd in Chardok, early in Kunark (when AE still happened in Skyfire) there were often 1-2 groups there, and Betrayer was pretty much perma-camped by groups and duos once epics were released.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Leontius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you would like to take a group to Chardok and camp anything, feel free. People disrupting the zone for normal groups will be subject to disciplinary action per the PNP, and it does not matter if they were there first. AE groups must work around normal groups, not the other way around.

CSRs always say things like this, and while the sentiment is very much appreciated I'm not too confident that there will be one around to patrol this at all times. You are after all free guides, not paid ones.

It'd be depressing to go to Chardok and get trained multiple times by AE guys pulling over your heads while you were trying to crawl into the zone, all the while waiting for a CSR to come in and rule in our favor - which, judging by how fast my petitions are answered when I petition about someone training, probably will not happen before I stop playing for the evening.

Again, not blaming you guys at all. You can't be around to patrol this all the time. You shouldn't have to be. But as long as there are regular AoE groups in Chardok, people will be discouraged from going there for normal XP.

Maybe I'll try it a couple of Mondays from now and see how it works out. This Monday we've already scheduled something else. But perhaps the Monday after.

[Leontius]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not too confident that there will be one around to patrol this at all times

I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone I talk to about this in game. There is free software available that you can use to record people breaking the rules. It's not hard to use. It's not hard to upload video. It's not even hard to stream video if that's your cup of tea. We can and do suspend people when we can see solid evidence of wrongdoing, but we have to have that evidence to act. To suspend people without evidence would be irresponsible and result in lots of unfair suspensions.

If you want to complain about people monopolizing the zone, feel free, but know that we have zero sympathy given how easy it is to provide us with evidence these days.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Leontius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone I talk to about this in game. There is free software available that you can use to record people breaking the rules. It's not hard to use. It's not hard to upload video. It's not even hard to stream video if that's your cup of tea. We can and do suspend people when we can see solid evidence of wrongdoing, but we have to have that evidence to act. To suspend people without evidence would be irresponsible and result in lots of unfair suspensions.

If you want to complain about people monopolizing the zone, feel free, but know that we have zero sympathy given how easy it is to provide us with evidence these days.

I get this. But casuals who have a very limited amount of time to play the game don't want to spend their evening frapsing up for lawyerquest when they could be playing in another zone instead. We have enough time to play once a week; I'm not too sure that we'd want to potentially spend our one evening a week to get trained and fraps it, instead of actually XPing somewhere where there's no chance we'd get trained by AoE groups.

That having been said, I'll keep that in mind if/when we go so that one of us can have a fraps up and we can do the thing if it comes to that. Maybe it won't; maybe the AoE groups will be very polite about it and avoid us entirely. That'd be nice.

[Leontius]

And this is the response I don't understand. It takes no extra time to run FRAPS, Bandicam, Shadowplay, Win10 vid capture, etc. once you have it set up. It might take 10 minutes to cut and upload a video to youtube and link it for us on the forums. If it's not worth 10 minutes of your time, then you probably don't actually care very much about being in this zone.

Again, I'm not going to ask people to stop complaining about this because I think it's annoying too, but understand that these complaints ring pretty hollow in the face of these highly convenient and easy to use solutions.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Leontius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this is the response I don't understand. It takes no extra time to run FRAPS, Bandicam, Shadowplay, Win10 vid capture, etc. once you have it set up. It might take 10 minutes to cut and upload a video to youtube and link it for us on the forums. If it's not worth 10 minutes of your time, then you probably don't actually care very much about being in this zone.

Again, I'm not going to ask people to stop complaining about this because I think it's annoying too, but understand that these complaints ring pretty hollow in the face of these highly convenient and easy to use solutions.

I don't think you're understanding. Fraps is easy to use, yes. Being trained, slain, and waiting for a timely CSR resolution is not, at least in my experience. I've waited around for long times before with regards to /petitions re: training and not had them answered while I was online.

If there's a possibility that my /petition about being trained while I'm sitting naked at the zone line because I got killed by that train won't get answered in a timely fashion (say, ~20m), it greatly reduces the odds that I would want to spend my evening in a fashion that might lead to that. This is not convenient, nor is it easy.

Now if your next argument is that you don't have any sympathy for me because I should be willing to sit around and wait for longer than 20 minutes for the GM resolution if I get trained, then yes, I plead guilty to that. And I could be waiting for a lot longer than 20 minutes, I think. I'm willing to concede that I am wrong, if you tell me that that's wrong.

[Leontius]

So what exactly do you want staff to do about this if you yourself are not willing to help us? As you've said, we're not paid, we are not on 24/7, and we are not going to be able to resolve your situation in 20 minutes if we're not online for it.

We are also not going to suspend anyone for doing AE in Chardok unless they're doing it at the expense of other players who have evidence of this. I get that you don't want to be the ones who have to suffer the trains to record evidence of them, but until someone does or there's a blanket ban on AE groups in Chardok, nothing about this situation is going to change.

Complain away if it makes you feel better though.

[Pokesan]

all you have to do is get trained+exp killed for hours!

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Leontius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what exactly do you want staff to do about this if you yourself are not willing to help us? As you've said, we're not paid, we are not on 24/7, and we are not going to be able to resolve your situation in 20 minutes if we're not online for it.

We are also not going to suspend anyone for doing AE in Chardok unless they're doing it at the expense of other players who have evidence of this. I get that you don't want to be the ones who have to suffer the trains to record evidence of them, but until someone does or there's a blanket ban on AE groups in Chardok, nothing about this situation is going to change.

Complain away if it makes you feel better though.

It's a forum; I'm just telling you how I see it. I don't think there's any good solution from your end, aside from aforementioned blanket ban, or a change to the mobs to make Chardok AoE inviable. (In the past I have suggested making every tenth mob immune to stun.)

No, I'm not expecting either of those things to happen. I'm just saying why I, personally, am reluctant to go there hoping for GM support that will eventually come to my rescue, but maybe not for hours or days, when my static group plays once a week and doing this has a reasonable chance of basically blowing our week.

I may do it anyway, taking the hit for the server so to speak, but I hope you understand my point of view.

[Leontius]

I completely do, and I do not blame anyone for not wanting to "touch the poop" so to speak. I'm just trying to make the rules and policies clear for anyone who might be interested - my replies were directed at you but they're there for everyone to read.