Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ty bby

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Race doesn't affect what you can solo once 60 with a full spellbook and gear.

Correct.

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Iksar and Troll are better in groups and raids where the shaman needn't facetank.

This is a bit too simplistic. Iksar/Troll regeneration is often used less in groups/raids, as it is easier to manage HP/Mana, and you may have Clarity, Bard songs, etc. This means more time at 100% HP. Even when you aren't tanking normally, that doesn't mean you will never get hit, or need to occasionally get into melee range of a mob. Belly casters are a simple example. Using https://wiki.project1999.com/Di%60zok_Oracle_Shillelagh to slow resistant mobs faster is another. Slowing mobs also generates hate, which can cause them to agro you.

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Racial regen is overshadowed by Torpor when cast on oneself and amounts to a relatively small amount of healing done of the course of a solo fight.

Iksar/Troll regeneration is overshadowed by Torpor in all scenarios, solo, group, and raid. No matter what you are doing, 4800 HP per hour is the equivalent of 3-4 Torpors. Casting 3-4 less Torpors per hour is saving 1.5 to 2 minutes of recovery time. Since Torpor Shamans are at 100% HP/Mana out of combat, these numbers are realistically lower, as you are generally not getting the full 4800 HP per hour.

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Ogre FSI can help prevent streaks of bad luck that could result in the death of a Shaman as well as add to player comfort overall, particularly useful in solo fights.

Correct. FSI is still useful in group and raid scenarios too. All racials are most useful when soloing.

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Ogres are the worst race for leveling.

Ogres don't have Regen or an XP bonus, this is true. Saying they are the "worst" at leveling is a bit misleading, as a naked Ogre with JBB would probably still get to 60 faster than a naked Iksar without JBB. JBB is saving a lot more mana per hour while leveling than what you can cannibalize from Iksar/Troll Regen. Levels 50-60 generally take longer than levels 1-50 too. If the player in question could twink their Shaman with Epic, then yes Ogres would be the slowest to reach 60. Otherwise Iksar is the slowest at leveling due to lack of JBB.

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- JBB is amazing for leveling and later becomes an optional item that some shamans enjoy using but does not change what you can and can't solo at 60 with Torpor.

Correct. If you aren't an Iksar, you should have JBB at 60 if you can afford it. It helps in a number of scenarios even at 60.

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- No one has demonstrated the actual value of Iksar AC (?)

Indeed. I don't think anybody has done a long term experiment comparing melee damage taken on an Iksar vs non iksar with the exact same gear, AGI, and level.

[Danth]

There were a handful of iksar vs non-iksar damge intake trials (albeit, with tanks, not shamans) run back when P99 was in Kunark, but I don't know of any being done post-Velious. Since AC/mitigation was revamped for Velious, the old data is thus no longer relevant. Overall the community doesn't care all that much; it's kind of a niche question. Most high-end solo/smallmans are charm-based these days, and raid tanks tend to gear for HP (when there's a choice) since the nature of raid heal chains favors that style of gearing in this game.

We know from experience the iksar's presumed advantage in that area is not sufficient for them to do anything a non-iksar shaman cannot do, or even have enough of an advantage that anyone's even particularly noticed it yet in going on ~9 years of Velious on P1999. Racial regeneration, access to Jaundiced bracer, bash immunity, even slam, all those are much more noticeable.

[Troxx]

JBB is undeniably awesome for leveling at 45 when you can start clicking it. It remains overpowered through until the early 50s. It starts to fall off mid50s and becomes less and less relevant the higher you get. Mob hp goes up. Dots reach a point where they start to shine. The click is long and by choosing to click it vs taking other approaches you end up losing a lot of potential mana (med ticks) extra regen (sitting especially on a troll iksar is very impactful) … lots of issues.

By the mid 50s and before epic, letting dog dog tank and using dots and medding with regen (spell and racial) rolling was quicker and more efficient. The best choice was always just grabbing a melee partner.

But yeah from 45-51 solo JBB xp was better than any potential duo I had

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a bit too simplistic. Iksar/Troll regeneration is often used less in groups/raids, as it is easier to manage HP/Mana, and you may have Clarity, Bard songs, etc. This means more time at 100% HP

Funny how a shaman who’s never experienced racial regen likes to comment on how racial is “used less” in any given scenario.

1-59 you never should be full health when things are happening. If you’re full health, you’re converting it to mana. If you’re full mana, you should be doing something with that mana.

So much for that group argument.

Raids? Unless you are specifically prepped and ready for an immediate boss fight there’s always something productive you can be doing with your mana. And if you’re not full mana you shouldn’t be just sitting at full health.

Then again i consider sitting at full health to be wasted potential .. ya know … cause of innate regen.

[Jimjam]

I know DSM is mindful of being prepared to give any that ask a full compliment of buffs, he is very good on that aspect, I’m sure his current guild mates can corroborate that.

That does seem an outlier though - often shamans will be short on mana for full buffs - especially in situations where people are dieing and rebuffing and moving through lots of targets quickly. Often toons will need to settle for fos and stamina only even when they’d prefer a bit more.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny how a shaman who’s never experienced racial regen likes to comment on how racial is “used less” in any given scenario.

I have a 60 Troll and a 52 Iksar, but somehow you believe I've never experience racial regen. You also seem to forget that Iksar/Troll Regen is 100% quantifiable at any period of time. You really need to spend a bit more time thinking before posting.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1-59 you never should be full health when things are happening. If you’re full health, you’re converting it to mana. If you’re full mana, you should be doing something with that mana.

I agree you should never be at full health before Torpor. We aren't discussing pre-Torpor in Min/Max scenarios. Remember your own words:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Min/max for shaman is being 60 and having torpor.

---

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raids? Unless you are specifically prepped and ready for an immediate boss fight there’s always something productive you can be doing with your mana. And if you’re not full mana you shouldn’t be just sitting at full health.

Then again i consider sitting at full health to be wasted potential .. ya know … cause of innate regen.

As for raids, you should be at 100% HP/Mana any time there is nothing going on, so you can be ready. There is no reason to be sitting AFK at 50% HP/Mana if you want to be a productive member of said raid.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By the mid 50s and before epic, letting dog dog tank and using dots and medding with regen (spell and racial) rolling was quicker and more efficient.

This is not more efficient, and is trivial to disprove with basic math. You are going to need to show us precisely what strategy you are using, so we can compare it to JBB. The only person who has a lack of experience is yourself. You sold your JBB 50+, meaning you don't know what it feels like to use JBB 50+ compared to not using it. Using your own logic of "you didn't experience it, therefore how could you know?", there is no reason for you to keep making the "JBB is only good from 45-51" claim. You only say this because you didn't have JBB after 51 lol.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know DSM is mindful of being prepared to give any that ask a full compliment of buffs, he is very good on that aspect, I’m sure his current guild mates can corroborate that.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That does seem an outlier though - often shamans will be short on mana for full buffs - especially in situations where people are dieing and rebuffing and moving through lots of targets quickly. Often toons will need to settle for fos and stamina only even when they’d prefer a bit more.

Agreed, there are scenarios where a raid is moving fast and not stopping to rest. In that scenario you are regenerating more often. You are also doing more slowing, which means you are more likely to get hit at some point too, which is where FSI can come in handy.

[Toxigen]

yeah FSI is sure gonna save you against a flurry

lmao

this guy talkin about raiding like hes done anything more than buff/slow bot

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah FSI is sure gonna save you against a flurry

lmao

Agreed, FSI will not save you from a Flurry. Nor have I ever claimed otherwise. Regen will not save you either, as you would only get something like 16 HP at most from Regen while getting hit from said Flurry.

FSI is better than Regen when dealing with a Flurry, because not getting stunned from a bash increases your chances of landing a slow before you die. You get more auto attack swings from https://wiki.project1999.com/Di%60zok_Oracle_Shillelagh , and you are more likely to land the slow you are casting.

[Troxx]

I experienced JBB until (I think) level 56. Mob hp got higher and it was a choice between standing there clicking JBB (+/- adding my own dots) and either trying to let dog tank or simply face tanking. Dog would not be reliable in holding aggro, so it meant the mob was on me.

Fastest kill speed: dog + dot + jbb
Medium kill speed: dog + jbb no dot
Slightly slower: load some dots + dog tank + me med vs cannidance

Why did the third option just end up better over time even though the individual kill speed was slightly lower? Efficiency resulted in less down time and faster pull tempo. JBB meant I was face tanking. JBB meant I was not only missing out on extra regen and med ticks from sitting during the fight, I was actively taking the damage vs letting the pet do that.

Pet regens 30 per tick baseline. More with a regen buff. You and I both know that shaman pets properly buffed are actually pretty good meat shields. By capitalizing on both the pet’s innate regen , regen buff, my own innate regen (sitting), fungi, and buff regen - well between the two of us we were rocking along at 30 + 15 + 15 + 15 (75 total health per tick) combined BEFORE you factor in troll racial regen while sitting. This is vs just my own regen and not getting to sit. So yeah 91 regen (16 racial sitting) combined between the two of us. It was nearly 1/3 of a continuous torpor that only required a regrowth refresh every nearly 20 minutes.

Pet health regen covered the dps of mobs in this level range very nicely and heals were infrequent and not very necessary- super efficient. My own regen covered the hits I would take here and there and funnel all that extra back into my mana bar. By not standing and chain clicking, I would also hit a lot of med ticks.

Even when the fights took a bit longer, I would kill more total mobs over any given unit time as each fight would end with me simply ready for the next.

With JBB chain clicking there were no med ticks. My innate regen was cut in half. I would be the one actively taking the damage which would require either time or mana to recover, and I’d have less mana from not canni’ing or dancing along the way.

You can show all the cute math of what a “free” clicky gives you in terms of dps, but don’t neglect the opportunity cost of having all of your everything fully occupied during the time you’re face tanking the damage and mindlessly clicking JBB.

Then again, Troll regen was there. You like to quote the differences while standing but I promise it’s a much wider gap while sitting.

Yes. Mid-50s it became less efficient than just playing differently and more efficiently. It was then I realized that my once overpowered self-PL tool was now just a cute toy.

Beyond that - the best results were with a duo buddy and god damn if it wasn’t boring as fuck. Shaman is such a dynamic class. It’s a shame to see it relegated to slowing a mob on incomming. And then just mindlessly hitting one key until it was dead.

Sold it. No regrets. Don’t want another. Would sell another immediately if I won one in a group.