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  #341  
Old 06-24-2021, 06:52 PM
Croco Croco is offline
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Originally Posted by Grumph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Having read this twice I honestly feel, in my heart of hearts, that this is real pain you're sharing. And perhaps on that day Kittens was made to feel belittled and/or shoved aside.


In the spirit of love I would like to extend my personal apologies, and to whatever extent that I, as a founding member of AG, may speak as a representative thereof.


Fogive or not is of course yall's choice. But for my sake I can say that no ill will was meant against Kittens on that day from AG for our sights were set on others.


I'll even go so far as to say that, if Kitten's leadership would like to retract from some of the anti-social actions they've engaged in since then (which I can now see perhaps as lashing out due to this on going emotional trauma) then I will be the first and loudest voice to publicly forgive, extend congratulations on their personal growth, and wish them well in future (non-toxic) endeavors.


Seriously. No one likes toxicity. Everyone hates toxicity. This should be a no brainier.
I can only speak for myself but I appreciate the sentiment and kindness if it's genuine, which it seems to be. Unfortunately it's a bit too little too late at this point. Kittens gets a lot of shit for trying to be the really good guys who get along with everyone, and similarly Riot gets shit for supposedly acting like the benevolent overlords of the server who people say act holier than thou, but Fr/Ag and subsequently Vanq has a pretty big persona as being the hardcore "fuck your feelings, get out of our way and go fuck your mother" guild and if your leadership acted with an ounce of the grace and character from this post you just made it would go a long way towards reducing the temp and toxicity of the server.

I would just ask that you look at that and ask why don't your leaders act more like that. Is it because the guild that came from the Fr/Ag alliance has it's roots in a desire to "destroy" another guild on the server? Do the pixels mean more to them than maintaining a good relationship with other top guilds? Quite honestly you seem out of place in that guild.
  #342  
Old 06-24-2021, 06:58 PM
icedwards icedwards is offline
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Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm going to be honest with you: The compilation video is trash, and the person who created it wasted their time. It includes the same angles that have been thoroughly analyzed and tries to present them in a synchronized manner, but fails to include any hard evidence because the source videos contained none.

It doesn't show Klaz standing in camp when the train comes in, and it does not actually show the things you allege that it includes (like #4 & 5 on your list).

There's better video out there, and this entire thread could have been avoided if it had been provided sooner.
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  #343  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:00 PM
Samoht Samoht is offline
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I would just ask that you look at that and ask why don't your leaders act more like that.
Because it's a farce. Leadership in Kittens and Riot are trying to be master manipulators who trick you into doing whatever the fuck they want. The people who left Riot to form Freedom and everybody who has left Riot since then realizes this. On the flip side, Vanquish does not pretend to be anything it's not. They have straightforward success without having to prove over and over again that we're not a dirty guild, even though all three top guilds are guilty of training or breaking other raiding rules at one point in time or another. Yall just sweep it under the rug or pretend it never happened. That's why Riot refuses to ever concede anything when they get caught in a fuckup. And trust me, they fuck up. A lot. Go back and count concessions, though. Only one guild is owning up to their mistakes. And it's not Kittens or Riot.
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Also its pretty hard not to post after you.. not because you have a stimulating(sic), but because you are constantly patrolling RnF and filling it with your spam.
  #344  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:00 PM
sydbarrett25 sydbarrett25 is offline
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Here is my take on this. Why would you guys go through all of this arguing if there was no fault. Like just drop it, if you all are so confident. Move on
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  #345  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:08 PM
icedwards icedwards is offline
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Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Vanquish does not pretend to be anything it's not. They have straightforward success without having to prove over and over again that we're not a dirty guild.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menden
Your GM is not happy right now.

After the multi week raid suspension, we were hopeful that folks would cooperate a bit more. Maybe some of those that have been a bit over-immersed would see the clear message sent by server staff to stop wasting everyone's time. Unfortunately, earlier today, someone decided that it would be a good idea to log onto a shared character for the sole purpose of training an opposing raid force. Based on the video shared, this was obviously completely premeditated and intentional.

We figured out who that player was. We reached out just in case they had a weak moment and did a dumb thing. Unfortunately, he denied all allegations, which led to multiple additional hours of staff time digging through logs, only to come to the same conclusion. I don't like being lied to. I don't like having staff time wasted.

Furoar was that player that logged on to the wizard that trained Riot’s raid force. We know this with 100% certainty. We look to Leaders within our community to set an example for how others should behave while playing on P99. As a Guild Leader, Furoar should be a paragon of upstanding behavior. His actions violated the trust that our server staff has put in him. It has also violated the trust of the many upstanding players who are members of Freedom, who are just looking to enjoy the game, and will now have to deal with the consequences of his actions.

Furoar and every account he has used consistently is suspended until January 1st, 2021. This includes bots.

Play the game, stop interfering in other player’s raid forces.
  #346  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:15 PM
Croco Croco is offline
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Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm not sure who told you that Vanquish does not compete for LTK, but I can guarantee you they were quite mistaken and that Vanquish has competed on almost every LTK on spawn for as long as the guild has been created except for situations where bag limits were in place or situations where Vanquish was actively killing other targets. There are 30 LTK raids logged on the Vanquish DKP site going back to the FRAG alliance.

But expecting Vanquish to give up other targets while you kill LTK is asinine. And it's not like Kittens would have been killing those targets, anyway. Kittens avoids competition because, let's face it, you are incapable of killing targets under pressure.

Then the fact that Riot chose LTK over the targets that Vanquish did kill would once again be Riot's choice. It's not the fault of Vanquish that Riot made a poor decision. And Vanquish is also not at fault if Kittens cannot kill LTK without help.

So cry more about one of the easiest CRs in the game. Cry more about the train where the trainer has already been suspended and the offending guild has already taken their punishment.

You're not getting more than that.
Back at the time this incident occurred Fr/Ag didn't kill LTK very often. Especially on quakes as you all had much higher priority targets to go after. Your attitude about whether or not to help a guild one of your members just wiped will tell you all you need to know about why tensions are so high all the time. No accountability, no class, highly questionable morals.

It was more important for Fr/Ag to continue on to kill Zlandicar, Klandicar, and eventually Tunare (I forget if there was a 4th target in there as well), than it was to do the right thing and at the very least help CR a guild one of your members just wiped mid kill. You would've lost 1 or 2 targets possibly, during a single cycle. The cost to you would've been almost meaningless and the good will it would've fostered could've literally changed the entire outlook of the server.

Lets play out the scenario of what happens if you all stop and help Kittens CR. So you come and help rez everyone and since you're right there and not in the middle of clearing growth it goes much faster. Lets say you help kill the dragon, maybe not your entire raid force but lets just say 20 people, or something like that. Maybe you miss out on a mob or 2 but now the divide that had started to form between Kittens and AG begins to mend. Maybe a bunch of kittens have their opinions turned around about Freedom being a bunch of assholes. Kittens doesn't petition, Incubo doesn't eat a (2?) week ban, and Fr/Ag doesn't have to concede LTK x2. You all come off looking like fucking kings that just went out of your way to fix something one of your members did. Maybe the Kriot alliance never even happens.

Essentially your leadership chose short term pixel gain over the long term health of guild relations on the server, and this is a choice they make over and over and over and over. Cycle after cycle. To the point where you guys have been trained/impeded during the heat of competition, gone on to secure the kill of the mob, and still petition. It's happened at least a few times, but somehow Kriot are the only guilds that are angling for free mobs via petitions. Your guild wrote the fucking book on burning down guild relations for minor gains and now you're all so shocked at how it's coming back to bite you in the ass.

The truth of the matter is that Quish doesn't want competition. If they did they would act like it and try and foster a positive relationship between the guilds at the top. You were founded with the goal of destroying the top raiding guild and now you're reaping the toxicity that you've sown.
  #347  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:17 PM
Grumph Grumph is online now
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Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Kittens gets a lot of shit for trying to be the really good guys who get along with everyone, and similarly Riot gets shit for supposedly acting like the benevolent overlords of the server who people say act holier than thou

Ok, I don’t think an officer led campaign to bully Straiker into deleting his character is “trying to be the real good guys”

Nor is telling everyone “your Dad did a bad job raising you” on Fathers Day.

Nor bragging about an “aggressive political strategy” to manipulate the server into free mobs.



Now, maybe teaming with Riot against Vanquish only to step aside and let Riot have a free Vulak to themselves feels like a ‘good guy’ move to y’all.

Except.

Y’all have announced that your a serious raid guild who deserves to have input on the raid scene.

Passing on a free Vulak without a single complaint to Riot for backstabbing you?

That’s the opposite of skin in the game. And seems disingenuous to me.
  #348  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:24 PM
Pulgasari Pulgasari is offline
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Originally Posted by Grumph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Ok, I don’t think an officer led campaign to bully Straiker into deleting his character is “trying to be the real good guys”
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  #349  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:28 PM
Samoht Samoht is offline
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Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Back at the time this incident occurred Fr/Ag didn't kill LTK very often. Especially on quakes as you all had much higher priority targets to go after. Your attitude about whether or not to help a guild one of your members just wiped will tell you all you need to know about why tensions are so high all the time. No accountability, no class, highly questionable morals.

It was more important for Fr/Ag to continue on to kill Zlandicar, Klandicar, and eventually Tunare (I forget if there was a 4th target in there as well), than it was to do the right thing and at the very least help CR a guild one of your members just wiped mid kill. You would've lost 1 or 2 targets possibly, during a single cycle. The cost to you would've been almost meaningless and the good will it would've fostered could've literally changed the entire outlook of the server.

Lets play out the scenario of what happens if you all stop and help Kittens CR. So you come and help rez everyone and since you're right there and not in the middle of clearing growth it goes much faster. Lets say you help kill the dragon, maybe not your entire raid force but lets just say 20 people, or something like that. Maybe you miss out on a mob or 2 but now the divide that had started to form between Kittens and AG begins to mend. Maybe a bunch of kittens have their opinions turned around about Freedom being a bunch of assholes. Kittens doesn't petition, Incubo doesn't eat a (2?) week ban, and Fr/Ag doesn't have to concede LTK x2. You all come off looking like fucking kings that just went out of your way to fix something one of your members did. Maybe the Kriot alliance never even happens.

Essentially your leadership chose short term pixel gain over the long term health of guild relations on the server, and this is a choice they make over and over and over and over. Cycle after cycle. To the point where you guys have been trained/impeded during the heat of competition, gone on to secure the kill of the mob, and still petition. It's happened at least a few times, but somehow Kriot are the only guilds that are angling for free mobs via petitions. Your guild wrote the fucking book on burning down guild relations for minor gains and now you're all so shocked at how it's coming back to bite you in the ass.

The truth of the matter is that Quish doesn't want competition. If they did they would act like it and try and foster a positive relationship between the guilds at the top. You were founded with the goal of destroying the top raiding guild and now you're reaping the toxicity that you've sown.
JFC, are you STILL crying about LTK? Should I start crying again about the Lady M that I watched Kittens train or the Vyemm that I watched Kittens stall? And, unlike the LTK encounter, yall never got punished for Lady M or Vyemm because for whatever reason, current server staff has decided that you actually have to kill the target you broke the rules on to get punished for breaking the rules, and YALL CAN'T KILL SHIT.

Who gives a shit about the KRIOT alliance. Riot barely gets any kills any more, either. They wouldn't even be around any more if bag limits were not implemented. But the rest of us are laughing our asses off when Riot leaves Kittens out on things like Statue or Vulak or they choose to kill Tunare with TSS instead.

WHO THE FUCK LET SMELLSLIKE WIN TUNARE LOOT? WHY WASN'T KITTENS THERE TO STOP HIM.
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Originally Posted by Alarti0001 View Post
Also its pretty hard not to post after you.. not because you have a stimulating(sic), but because you are constantly patrolling RnF and filling it with your spam.
  #350  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:38 PM
Croco Croco is offline
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Originally Posted by Grumph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Ok, I don’t think an officer led campaign to bully Straiker into deleting his character is “trying to be the real good guys”

Nor is telling everyone “your Dad did a bad job raising you” on Fathers Day.

Nor bragging about an “aggressive political strategy” to manipulate the server into free mobs.



Now, maybe teaming with Riot against Vanquish only to step aside and let Riot have a free Vulak to themselves feels like a ‘good guy’ move to y’all.

Except.

Y’all have announced that your a serious raid guild who deserves to have input on the raid scene.

Passing on a free Vulak without a single complaint to Riot for backstabbing you?

That’s the opposite of skin in the game. And seems disingenuous to me.
This campaign you speak of is from a single R&F thread. It's not like he was bullied incessantly on discord and in game. He made a bet, maybe he never had any intention of paying up when the results of that bet came calling. If you can't read the tongue in cheek nature of all the posts calling for him to delete his character to hold up his side of the bet I'm not sure what else to tell you.

The father's day thing and the political strategy comment speak to the toxicity Quish was founded on and continues to foster. You can't do and say the things you all do, including creating this thread after training a raid force and winning the vulak in question, and not expect people to have unkind words. Quish is the worst bunch of sore winners and sore losers on the server bar none. You all make inflammatory RnF posts when you lose and when you win. Maybe you all just can't help but talk shit and foster toxicity.

The relationship that Riot has with Kittens is ours alone and if you don't think there was a discussion about the vulak we solo killed without kittens then you're out of your mind. You have this idea that we just decided in the heat of the moment "nah fuck these stupid cats this is OUR vulak!" when that couldn't be further from the truth. Riot and Kitten officers do a lot of work to maintain a good alliance. I can't say what the specific decisions were that lead to Riot going it solo on vulak as I'm not an officer so I'm not privy to those conversations but you can bet your ass 100% I would've heard it from all the friends I still have in Kittens if there was a problem with how that specific kill played out.

Thinking you know the ins and outs of our alliance and insinuating there was some great atrocity committed or that Riot callously backstabbed Kittens by taking a free Vulak solo is the very definition of breeding toxicity by spreading some made up false narrative then continuing to push said narrative post after post after post. Similarly to coming up with a completely made up idea of what one specific characters name may or may not mean even after multiple people tell you exactly what it means and exactly how to pronounce it.

Your incessance with pushing these multiple false narratives reminds me a lot of the ending of The Messenger when Joan of Arc is being questioned about what lead to her leading the French armies and she talks about finding the sword in a field. Maybe a sword in a field is just a sword, not a message from god. You just offered me a seemingly sincere apology and in the very next post your back to spreading toxic false mistruths. Why do you think that is?
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