Complex Warrior Question - Proc Threat Amounts

[remen]

First of all, there is quite a bit of misinformation in this thread. Off the bat an important one to correct is that a proc needs to land to generate agro. Whether the proc is fully resisted, partially resisted, or fully lands, it generates the same amount of threat.

White damage (weapon ratio) is more important now that there is a cap on the threat from procs. The way threat from a proc changed is that the agro component is capped at 400 threat (ie poison counters, stuns, slows, snares, etc.). However, if the is a DD or DoT as part of the proc, that gets added on top of the 400. So that is why some VP weaps have made a comeback. As an example, feverblade was mentioned which has the disease counters that hit the 400 hate cap. But it also has 110dd AND a DoT. So the threat from the proc is 400 + 110 + the dot. And the ratio is pretty good at 11/18. However, it may not be used as commonly on raids due to having 0 hp / ac or any other stats.

Trident is highly regarded because the slow is cold based, therefore it can land on otherwise unslowable mobs like Vyemm or Kreizenn. And even aside from that it is a very good threat weapon anyways, with a solid ratio a 400 threat proc + DoT, and 50hp and 10 stam.



The following post is so bad it isn't even worth correcting. Maybe half the information is accurate.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

SOD
Feverblade
Veridix's/Verdrax
Maelstrom
Howling Cutlass
Red Epic
Willsapper
Malevolent Runeblade
Sword of the Shissar
Black Dragoneye
Tunare Whip
Trident
Kriezenn Flame
Jaleans
Vyemm Whip

Rounds out the top 15 for mainhand.

Offhand:
SOD
Feverblade
Trident
Veridix's
Red Epic
Sword of the Shissar
Blade of the Black Dragoneye
Tunare Whip
Vyemm Whip
Jalean's Katana
Malevolent Runeblade
Howling cutlass
Maelstrom
Frostbringer
Chelaki Tail

Top 15 for offhand.

Mix and match, have fun. Feverblade and redblade is the realistic BiS aggro generation you're ever going to get, suitable for trash tanking, xp groups, HoT etc.

-Raid tanking there's a great argument for Trident+Redblade for the CR slow on mainhand and switch after proc.
-Slowable raid tanking silly not to use sapper+trident then switch to something better.
-AoW, Vyemm and Tunare tanking max the hp so Redblade and Jaelen.
-Rampage tanking obv horn of hsagra+whitestone.
-Soloing shit in chardok Jaleans and blue blade.
-DPS in the crowd Kriezenn flame/Vyemm Club and blue blade.
-

[remen]

Originally Posted by Arvan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Proc rate per minute is normalized however and all weapons on p99 have the same “procmod”

Has this actually been tested and proven? Certain weapons feel like they proc more often than others, so I did a little bit of testing to try and generate some actual data. At 175 dex, some weapons were proccing a little over twice a minute while others were as low as 1.5 per minute. This was over a sample size of about 30 minutes per weapon, so idk if that is enough to draw any type of conclusions. Any stat heads in here that could help with figuring out at what sample size you can start drawing some conclusions with a high level of confidence?

[Arvan]

Originally Posted by remen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Has this actually been tested and proven? Certain weapons feel like they proc more often than others, so I did a little bit of testing to try and generate some actual data. At 175 dex, some weapons were proccing a little over twice a minute while others were as low as 1.5 per minute. This was over a sample size of about 30 minutes per weapon, so idk if that is enough to draw any type of conclusions. Any stat heads in here that could help with figuring out at what sample size you can start drawing some conclusions with a high level of confidence?

I haven't tested it I'm just going off a forum post by i think it was rogean saying all procmods were 0 here. Maybe its been changed since that post or maybe he was wrong/lying for some reason.

[Arvan]

Wasnt rogean it was nilbog heres the thread https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ight=proc+rate

[remen]

Originally Posted by Arvan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wasnt rogean it was nilbog heres the thread https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ight=proc+rate

Cool thanks for the link, seems pretty definitive.

[Solist]

Originally Posted by remen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First of all, there is quite a bit of misinformation in this thread. Off the bat an important one to correct is that a proc needs to land to generate agro. Whether the proc is fully resisted, partially resisted, or fully lands, it generates the same amount of threat.

White damage (weapon ratio) is more important now that there is a cap on the threat from procs. The way threat from a proc changed is that the agro component is capped at 400 threat (ie poison counters, stuns, slows, snares, etc.). However, if the is a DD or DoT as part of the proc, that gets added on top of the 400. So that is why some VP weaps have made a comeback. As an example, feverblade was mentioned which has the disease counters that hit the 400 hate cap. But it also has 110dd AND a DoT. So the threat from the proc is 400 + 110 + the dot. And the ratio is pretty good at 11/18. However, it may not be used as commonly on raids due to having 0 hp / ac or any other stats.

Trident is highly regarded because the slow is cold based, therefore it can land on otherwise unslowable mobs like Vyemm or Kreizenn. And even aside from that it is a very good threat weapon anyways, with a solid ratio a 400 threat proc + DoT, and 50hp and 10 stam.



The following post is so bad it isn't even worth correcting. Maybe half the information is accurate.

What do you mean feverblade and VP weaps have made a comeback? They were BIS by a huuuuuge margin until velious (Feverblade + malevolent runeblade was BIS aggro gen all through kunark from when VP opened).

After velious it became feverblade + WESS, again by such a laughable margin it wasn’t worth even using anything else if you wanted max threat gen.

Post nerf it’s epic and SOD that made the comebacks. Feverblade is still OP, just not to the hilarious extent it was for the 7 years prior. As for that list, mix of models and extensive testing with most of them.

Reality is you don’t want BIS aggro generation most of the time, you want to provide the utility of an additional MR slow, a CR slow, huge HP and moderate hate gen. All through this sever we’ve had strings and prayers for aggro when it’s needed most in the game (hoshkar, nexona, gore nothing else warrants max aggro gen). Hence you’re maybe butthurt or something. But within the realms of flipping a position here or there, or subbing in some other very equivalent weapon down the list it’s dead accurate for hate generation which is specifically what was asked. Was even warrior specific hence the lack of salindrite listed which is comically more aggro than red blade, for example.

You’re a silly head if you think anything but a sapper and trident is worth getting if you had to just pick two simple common drops that are cheap. Those two, GG. Find some stats elsewhere.

[chevy79bu]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Word on the street is hate from blind was nerfed. It's not even good for paladins to use any more.

In short, do not use WESS.

This is just my personal findings and feelings. I have done no parsing and I have only played my warrior to level 50 now. But I have been using Frostbringer/WESS as my group combo since level 40. Personally to me it feels like the WESS proc generates better aggro on a normal mob. When Frostbringer procs I sometimes will loose aggro right back to a Rogue etc. But when WESS procs I can move around the camp and the mob will almost always follow me. With that said I still use Frost (main hand) and WESS (offhand). Regardless of what is better/best this combo still works great for holding aggro. I only have something like 125 dex while wearing a fungi/ no dex buff and get plenty of procs to manage hate.

[wagorf]

I have all the weapons discussed here except sod. I've also spent a lot of time in groups, mixing the weaps around. There is no "best weapon combo".

Reality is you don’t want BIS aggro generation most of the time

This is true. It's about generating any proc, not about which proc. The top weapons don't differ threat so much to be considered game changing. You can have the top 2 proc weapons and with max dex there will be MANY times you just don't proc for shit.

[remen]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What do you mean feverblade and VP weaps have made a comeback? They were BIS by a huuuuuge margin until velious (Feverblade + malevolent runeblade was BIS aggro gen all through kunark from when VP opened).

After velious it became feverblade + WESS, again by such a laughable margin it wasn’t worth even using anything else if you wanted max threat gen.

Post nerf it’s epic and SOD that made the comebacks. Feverblade is still OP, just not to the hilarious extent it was for the 7 years prior. As for that list, mix of models and extensive testing with most of them.

Good point, saying that the VP weaps have made comebacks isn't the correct way to put it. I should have just said that they are very valuable still for the combo of a max threat proc + good DD / DoT. You're right it's the epic that has made the comeback.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reality is you don’t want BIS aggro generation most of the time, you want to provide the utility of an additional MR slow, a CR slow, huge HP and moderate hate gen. All through this sever we’ve had strings and prayers for aggro when it’s needed most in the game (hoshkar, nexona, gore nothing else warrants max aggro gen). Hence you’re maybe butthurt or something. But within the realms of flipping a position here or there, or subbing in some other very equivalent weapon down the list it’s dead accurate for hate generation which is specifically what was asked. Was even warrior specific hence the lack of salindrite listed which is comically more aggro than red blade, for example.

This is where you go off the rails again. I don't know why on earth you think that only hoshkar, gore, and nexona warrant max agro, that is a very wierd combo of mobs to pick. The reality is that there are a ton of other mobs and situations that you want to generate max agro. Also, what is it you think I am butthurt about? I don't really understand what you are getting at.

To circle back to your original list, the ones that immediately jump out as ranging from bad options or ridiculously bad options are:

Howling Cutlass, Maelstrom, Tunare Whip, Kriezenn Flame, Vyemm whip, Frostbringer, and Chelaki Tail

Also "-Rampage tanking obv horn of hsagra+whitestone." is dead wrong. There are five 100hp main hand weapons.

"-DPS in the crowd Kriezenn flame/Vyemm Club and blue blade." Jaelen's and Tuna Braid are both better main hand options than kreizenn flame and vyemm club. Those are pretty awful weapons for a warrior to waste dkp on.