Discussion, would you prefer cities to be cities, or dungeons?

[Ennewi]

Players used to conduct small raids in cities, directing their attention towards the guild halls and quest NPCs, just on the hunch that they dropped exceptional loot, specifically the Temple of Marr in North Freeport. There are lengthy discussions on Allakhazam about which NPCs were rumored to drop what, speculation mostly fed with white lies. Though city raids were uncommon, the Tunare server saw a few guilds target the Monk guild house in West Freeport semi-regularly; at least killing those resulted in a black headband or two.

But the assumption back then seemed to be that guild masters were akin to General V or Eejag in the lava pit, daring players to attack them; if you could kill gods and receive godlike rewards, why not guild trainers? With additional targets, having to crawl through each section of the Neriak would have been good practice for intermediate players too low for Hate.

Visually at least, the devs kept that misconception alive with the Overthere outpost and Firiona Vie, both having a besieged look and both sending guards out into the xp areas. Overthere golems drew enough interest from duos/trios (or at least it does now) and the dragoons kept up a certain level of tension throughout the zone. If it weren't for the greedy merchants and faction, OT would have felt more active.

Whereas all of Firiona Vie, including the tunnels underwater and underground, could have made for a decent widespread raid event, similar to the ring war where the results of a failure would be seen later throughout the city, in this case not being able to board the Maiden's Voyage because the port is overrun with pirates. In place of a scripted event, there are random clashes that give the appearance of an ongoing conflict, with the fieldsurgeons running in a big loop and suiciding into Drolvargs the way, which is basically a higher level version of Guard Cheslin strutting around dying to gnolls.

Skyshrine, Kael, and Chardok 2.0 all have citylike features, but the bankers and merchants still seem slightly out of place. Players can group and raid in all three, but there doesn't seem to be much overlap between the city and dungeon parts. Highkeep is probably the best in terms of design. It blurs the line between city and dungeon perfectly. The zone just needs a larger basement area and maybe the inclusion of Highpass.

[Bardp1999]

They did this in WoW....worked just fine and was fun when the Alliance would attack Ogrimar or vice versa

[Jimjam]

Just remembered Runnyeye is a great dungeon city.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just remembered Runnyeye is a great dungeon city.

It's almost like, in another timeline there's a playable goblin race in everquest.

If monsters were to ever gain consciousness, Sol A and Runneye would be the monsters faction version of Qeynos & Freeport.

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's almost like, in another timeline there's a playable goblin race in everquest.

If monsters were to ever gain consciousness, Sol A and Runneye would be the monsters faction version of Qeynos & Freeport.

Blowing my mind right now

[Zuranthium]

It was sad when hunting in cities got nerfed, that was a big part of what made the newbie areas continue to feel alive. Would have been better if they made it more of a challenge instead, like guards unexpectedly spawning and attacking players after they kill an NPC. If you link important quests to killing the hardest NPC's in the city, that would also make city raids a thing.

Another quest system could also be introduced to make the cities more relevant as well. Depending on your starting alignment, your character is born into the game with quests to kill NPC's from opposing cities. Would be a requirement to get past certain levels, which makes RPG sense too (your guild master only continues to teach you secret knowledge if you prove your worth by defeating their enemies).

Faction having a bigger impact would be an addition I'd be happy to see as well. Like every player in the game having NPC "bounty hunters" infrequently spawn and come after them. Nobody would be able to fully avoid it, even if they try to fix their faction for every city alignment possible, because everyone would inherently need to hunt in cities sometimes. This would also make playing an "evil aligned" character more difficult (especially Iksar), as intended, because there are more factions against those ones. You could remove racial exp penalties at that point, since the extra difficulty is already inherent, and give a small exp boost to evil Humans/Erudites/Dark Elves/Gnomes (since they don't get the same kind of racial bonuses as Ogres/Trolls/Iksar).

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Highkeep is probably the best in terms of design. It blurs the line between city and dungeon perfectly. The zone just needs a larger basement area and maybe the inclusion of Highpass.

Highkeep as a whole should be 2x the size, I feel. It's quite dinky. Also doesn't make sense how close the bank is to the goblins and overall basement. Should separate that out better.

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was sad when hunting in cities got nerfed, that was a big part of what made the newbie areas continue to feel alive. Would have been better if they made it more of a challenge instead, like guards unexpectedly spawning and attacking players after they kill an NPC. If you link important quests to killing the hardest NPC's in the city, that would also make city raids a thing.

Another quest system could also be introduced to make the cities more relevant as well. Depending on your starting alignment, your character is born into the game with quests to kill NPC's from opposing cities. Would be a requirement to get past certain levels, which makes RPG sense too (your guild master only continues to teach you secret knowledge if you prove your worth by defeating their enemies).

Faction having a bigger impact would be an addition I'd be happy to see as well. Like every player in the game having NPC "bounty hunters" infrequently spawn and come after them. Nobody would be able to fully avoid it, even if they try to fix their faction for every city alignment possible, because everyone would inherently need to hunt in cities sometimes. This would also make playing an "evil aligned" character more difficult (especially Iksar), as intended, because there are more factions against those ones. You could remove racial exp penalties at that point, since the extra difficulty is already inherent, and give a small exp boost to evil Humans/Erudites/Dark Elves/Gnomes (since they don't get the same kind of racial bonuses as Ogres/Trolls/Iksar).



Highkeep as a whole should be 2x the size, I feel. It's quite dinky. Also doesn't make sense how close the bank is to the goblins and overall basement. Should separate that out better.

These all sound like great custom content ideas! I like the quests between rival cities bit especially.

[Swish2]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Highkeep as a whole should be 2x the size, I feel. It's quite dinky. Also doesn't make sense how close the bank is to the goblins and overall basement. Should separate that out better.

Highkeep was EQ's first created zone wasn't it? I guess they wanted a bit of everything in there. There's certainly a lot going on for how small it is...unless you know the place well on all floors there's a few potential nasty surprises behind some of the doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe the place needs a couple of Fippy Darkpaw style goblins trying to attack from the basement in an ongoing escape bid [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Halfcell]

Originally Posted by F0rmsh1fter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

used to do this back in the day on live. Was in an evil guild and we'd regularly raid freeport

This, I totally remember Evil Legion on Drinal doing this, though i dont know if it was Freeport specifically. Was a lot of fun.

[Halfcell]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Highkeep as a whole should be 2x the size, I feel. It's quite dinky. Also doesn't make sense how close the bank is to the goblins and overall basement. Should separate that out better.

Also, why does High Keep basement not link with Runnyeye? Or some higher level transition dungeon?