We are in the last era of our timeline.

[waltjig]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are aware your ATK has no bearing on your hate building right?

DPS - Yes. Aggro - No.

So you are saying DPS has no bearing on hate generation?

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by waltjig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you are saying DPS has no bearing on hate generation?

I believe I read this as well, high meta neckbeards can confirm. But the amount of melee damage you do is irrelevant, even the amount of times you hit the mob is irrelevant. Hate is generated off a melee swing, period. So faster weapons are always the way to go for threat (when not factoring in procs).

To be clear, you swing at a mob 50 times and miss all 50, doing zero damage. You generate the same threat as hitting the mob all 50 times and doing 5,000 damage.

Would like neckbeard confirmation of the above.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Skew [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blue blade kinda hard to replace till you get some uber ToV loot. Even then off-hand procs are so sporadic the blueblades +attk helps overall threat more than most ToV offhands.

+attack has no bearing on threat. DPS? Yes. But threat is based off of potential damage only, not whether or not you hit or how much you hit for.

Just figured I'd clarify.

[Skew]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe I read this as well, high meta neckbeards can confirm. But the amount of melee damage you do is irrelevant, even the amount of times you hit the mob is irrelevant. Hate is generated off a melee swing, period. So faster weapons are always the way to go for threat (when not factoring in procs).

To be clear, you swing at a mob 50 times and miss all 50, doing zero damage. You generate the same threat as hitting the mob all 50 times and doing 5,000 damage.

Would like neckbeard confirmation of the above.

You are aware your ATK has no bearing on your hate building right?

DPS - Yes. Aggro - No.

I thought on live it worked that threat worked off possible damage per swing. So not just speed of weapon or DPS that lands but total threat is the threat of effective DPS.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Skew [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought on live it worked that threat worked off possible damage per swing. So not just speed of weapon or DPS that lands but total threat is the threat of effective DPS.

I'm not sure about that to be honest, but that description sounds a bit quirky, because any tank leading off with a 2h weapon would most likely generate more threat out the gate than anyone dual wielding. Then factoring ripostes with a 2h weapon would make 'potential damage' threat seem viable compared to dual wield. I don't recall seeing any warriors use 2hs / 2hb for threat outside of Vanilla EQ.

I'm no parse monkey though, don't know how quickly a dual wield 'potential damage' threat model would overtake a 2h weapon.

Also not sure how they would factor in damage bonus, crits, crippling blows, etc.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

+attack has no bearing on threat. DPS? Yes.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But threat is based off of potential damage only, not whether or not you hit or how much you hit for.

These two statements contradict each other because higher attack means higher potential damage. Threat per swing is based on how much damage you could do, not how much you actually do, so raising attack indirectly raises threat, but probably not by as much as raising your weapon damage would.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These two statements contradict each other because higher attack means higher potential damage. Threat per swing is based on how much damage you could do, not how much you actually do, so raising attack indirectly raises threat, but probably not by as much as raising your weapon damage would.

This is false.

The hate per swing is based on the weapon alone. The ATK of the player wielding the weapon is irrelevant to the hate calculation.

Weapon DMG and DMG Bonus are the factors in hate per swing. As a result, certain 2handers generate a very substantial amount of raw aggro just through swings. Because they have high damage bonuses.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is false.

The hate per swing is based on the weapon alone. The ATK of the player wielding the weapon is irrelevant to the hate calculation.

Weapon DMG and DMG Bonus are the factors in hate per swing. As a result, certain 2handers generate a very substantial amount of raw aggro just through swings. Because they have high damage bonuses.

Wise one, can you read my earlier comments in this thread... I thought 'missed swings' counted as well. Say you have a 30/40 weapon with a 30 weapon DMG bonus on it.

I swing 10 times and miss all 10. Does it still view my misses as 'potential damage', so threat would be: 30 base damage x 10 swings = 300 + (30 weapon DMG Bonus x 10 swings = 300), result being 600 Hate generated (even though I didn't hit mob once).

Likewise, same scenario above, I hit mob 10 times with same weapon and generate 1,000 damage, my hate still remains at 600?

Would seem my earlier comments about just a melee swing generating hate is wrong then, as base dmg + weapon bonus dmg play a factor into hate calculation (not just weapon delay)?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These two statements contradict each other because higher attack means higher potential damage. Threat per swing is based on how much damage you could do, not how much you actually do, so raising attack indirectly raises threat, but probably not by as much as raising your weapon damage would.

Threat per swing is based on potential damage, neither of which are based on your attack. +attack does NOT increase threat potential. Your threat potential is based on max possible damage (ie ratio) and delay (damage bonus). +Attack does not increase max damage, just your chance of max damage per swing (higher average DI).

+Attack does not increase your melee white damage threat. That is only ratio and haste (factoring in damage bonus per level).

This is basic EQ shit.

Threat for a 30/30 2hander with 200 attack and Threat for a 30/30 2hander with 2,000,000 attack value (assuming equal double attack rates) are equal. Actual damage dealt is impacted by attack because it affects your chance to hit, DB, and DI (1-20) ...

Basic. EQ. Shit.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basic. EQ. Shit.

Don't mean to ruin your cool mic drop moment, but this is advanced level stuff. Lot of vets not still understanding EQ dynamics despite years of play time. Part of what made EQ so great, a bit of mystery and confusion of how stuff worked.

Nevermind this is P99, could be done tweaks we don't know about.

I'm sure WoW has all their weapons ranked and categorized by threat, damage, etc and plug-ins that will display every single formula and hold your hand into choosing the best item for your class.

All this meta knowledge in P99 starting to make me sad!