Game Mechanics: Persistent instaclick item use on Blue

[Solist]

Hi guys,

We went to all this trouble to remove all the big instaclicks in the past 2 years. This changed the game for a lot of people but mainly the following critical items were nerfed:

Initial Aggro Generation
Midnight Mallet nerfed from 5 insta clicks of aggro to cast time. (now not used)
Midnight mallet use by players was replaced with Forlorn Totem generally for a click, or sometimes 3-4 clicks while a ranger weaponshield tanks; and addition of farming Forlorn Scepters which are 10 insta clicks of aggro.

Mid fight snap aggro
Nets were the dominant aggro click to throw at a mob mid fight. Forlorn Totem have largely replaced nets, just generally a rogue dies in the process due to the cast time. Recharge cost of Forlorn Totem is extremely cheap, unlike Nets.

Puppet Strings were nerfed to not be instant cast. This removed the huge snap aggro from warriors (and enjoyment of the game for a lot of clerics and enchanters, lol). These were directly replaced by weaponshield tanks; and addition of farming Forlorn Scepters

Utility Aggro
Prayers were the utility aggro item of the server for sure, a bag of prayers on a warrior trivialised some encounters. Nothing has replaced them for healing, but the aggro is now just clicking a Scepters

Stoppers are largely useless now. More Mystic Cloak's get farmed, but otherwise replaced by more Beards which now have a cast time, slightly annoying but when planned for is fine.

Instant CH's
The huge nerf to https://wiki.project1999.com/Soulfire just meant more people carry Reapers. An annoyance, but it's nice to see them nerfed as it was out of hand anyway. Now all raid guilds just have 2-5 paladin bots and a dozen https://wiki.project1999.com/Soulfire corpsed around the game.

Tag items
Nets were the ubiquitous tag item of the last decade on blue. They just got replaced by Forlorn Totem when there is space/time/line of sight, or Wands which we've adapted to using, generally everyone uses wands to keep aggro low etc.

bolt wand same dealio, just gives more range than Wands allowing you to get distance during projectile flight time.

What went wrong
The nerf of reapers (recharge cost), stoppers (recharge cost/cast time), soulfires (pal only), nets (recharge cost), prayers (cast time/recharge cost), strings (recharge cost), beards (recharge cost), mallets (recharge cost) all only achieved to move the community on to other items like Sceptres, wands, bolt wands, totems, paladin bots for soulfires. You guys really only changed half the items and didn't achieve anything in the process as gameplay was adapted around new item 'exploitation'.

Do it properly
I'm posting this as a bug as it was obvious the intent of the clicky nerf, and the bug is evident the nerf was not complete, or vast enough. The spirit of the game sort of demands this gets extended to cover all the other new items we now covet.

The nerf itself we have to live with, and for many of us at great personal cost (rip my strings, stopper, prayers etc). But the nerf was all for nothing if it is not complete.

If nothing changed in the raid scene with the clicky nerf (and except for 13man nexona, nothing changed as otherwise every encounter is the same) can we undo the clicky nerf. Or can we do it properly and address the below (and possibly more).

Suggestions
Add a CH delay/debuff to all instant CH items, the same CH that is on Donals BP post nerf. This turns the CH spell from a heal, to a heal+debuff blocking the use of further ch's of that type. Removing the ability to spam CH's with Donals BP (something I enjoyed to huge gain early kunark, it was very broken).

So add the donals BP effect to:
Reaper
SoulFire
Cleric Neck
So the spell cast is the debuff+heal, not the cleric spell CH.

Add cast times of 2sec +- to:
Forlorn Scepters
Frostbolt Wands
Wands
Mystic Cloak's

Add large recharge cost to:
Forlorn Totem
Frostbolt Wands
Wands


Anticipated changes needed:
Remove the ability to cast Flux Staff Click from raid zones like PoF/PoH/ToV/Kael, or remove the aggro component to this spell in those zones so Flux Staff isn't the outright cheese it currently is. The clicky nerf only made the flux staff more powerful, and the above suggestions only strengthen the flux staff further. (I have a wizard, I kite vulak guards...this change hurts me a lot). The coding to remove specific spells from use in zones exists already, so this can't be difficult without effecting all wizards everywhere. Examples of this are Kunark evac spells, CoTH in sky, Lev in The Hole, etc.

In Closing
There is probably more items not covered that will be dragged out from under some rock somewhere and used. Love to add those to the list without prohibitively effecting lower level gameplay.

I stress again that the clicky nerf has not changed the raid scene, which ostensibly was the target of the nerf given the items changed. The clicky nerf hurt soloers and groupers, solo artist content, etc. The raid scene we just move on and adapted, farmed different items, canged class comp etc.

So if we don't address the rest of the items the entire thing was for nothing and should be reversed. The clicky nerf in its current form is a bug for that reason. Let's fix it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Croco]

Or maybe, and hear me out because this is a crazy idea, don't continue to change things in a non-classic way and accept that you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. You can't force people to experience a game the same way it was experienced more than 20 years ago. We have faster internet, faster computers, and more knowledge of everything EQ related.

Remove the nerfs and revert everything to it's classic state.

[Lich]

I agree. Either remove the non classic nerfs or start adding back QoL improvements that were removed because not classic. Stuff like Dot damage showing, spell description and spell timers etc. Green could use custom UI and pet window etc.

[Gustoo]

I think it should be discussed until we are sick first (seriously) because the nerfs are a big deal.

You may also mention ivy hoops. This thread is basically a guide to elite uberness that in the past most normal mortal eq players would never learn about.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Add cast times of 2sec +- to:
Forlorn Scepters
Frostbolt Wands
Wands
Mystic Cloak's

Add large recharge cost to:
Forlorn Totem
Frostbolt Wands
Wands

These changes need to be implemented ASAP.

You should also look at changing Larrikan's Mask, Ring of Shadows, and Earring of the Frozen Skull to increase the recharge cost there, as well.

Oh, and should Larrikan's Mask actually be able to be recharged in a Box of the Void (PoSky quest item recharge box) or is that a bug?

[Solist]

Hooping trakanon down happenned once ever on the server. We used to carry maybe 10 total in the raid. But yes, that one occasion destroyed necromancers and SK's for the rest of the server's duration from 2012 onwards. Amazing.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These changes need to be implemented ASAP.

You should also look at changing Larrikan's Mask, Ring of Shadows, and Earring of the Frozen Skull to increase the recharge cost there, as well.

Oh, and should Larrikan's Mask actually be able to be recharged in a Box of the Void (PoSky quest item recharge box) or is that a bug?

If you cast identify on the larry mask it says "class 3", seems intended/classic.

[Solist]

Larrikens mask and invis rings are trivial nonsense.

They dont trivialise content.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Larrikens mask and invis rings are trivial nonsense.

They dont trivialise content.

I'll have to disagree with you there. They give classes that would otherwise not be able to invis an infinite amount of charges of invisibility.

Ring of Shadows is instant cast, so it's extra OP, even for classes that already have invis.

They definitely need the same treatment.

[Keebz]

One nit, Paladin 'bots' for Soulfires don't seem egregious to me. I think Reapers should get the same treatment, imho--make them SHD only. This nerfs the cheeziness, and makes Knights feel special again. Win-win imho.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hooping trakanon down happenned once ever on the server. We used to carry maybe 10 total in the raid. But yes, that one occasion destroyed necromancers and SK's for the rest of the server's duration from 2012 onwards. Amazing.

Do we need to file a separate bug report for this?