Game Mechanics: Sneak and CoS Pulling (Monks/Necros/SKs)

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd say this sticks unless someone can show us the patch note where it was changed for Luclin / PoP. Nasty bug and broken mechanic.

You need to stop making these posts.

[Nirgon]

Okay I'll rephrase.

"Given that this does not happen on a classic PoP server (EQ Mac), please find us the patch note where this was changed past Kunark or Velious. Otherwise, it needs to be fixed."

[Splorf22]

From Treats' guide:

4) Using Thrown Weapons and Sneak to split.

With the changes to Sneak (no longer dropping when you use a thrown weapon ) another use has come up! In order for this to work, you must be using a ranged weapon with a ranger greater then the static aggro of the mob ( ie method # 3 listed above): engage sneak, throw, insta split. Personally I'm using summoned suriken for this, and I haven't had to use FD on a split since I got back into EQ. This includes splitting spawns where the mobs are literally on top of each other, although some times I have hit the mob i didn't have targeted, I have never aggro'ed the other.

So according to this monks and rogues can instantly split any camp with 0 risk.

[Samrothstein]

If you have someone cast invisibility on you while a mob is chasing you and it runs past other mobs, those should train. That's the point that is being addressed.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From Treats' guide:



So according to this monks and rogues can instantly split any camp with 0 risk.

Not on here you can't.

Projectile items have basically no flight time.

Not really sure why you posted this.

As it is right now with Sneak, Monks can split any camp on P99 with 0 risk, just as you stated...

Pull a camp
Feign Death
Hit Sneak
Wait until all mobs backs are turned
Hit one with sneak engaged = single pull

[Splorf22]

Did you read my quote from the guide? The author doesn't even do FD splits any more because all he/she (damn manginas!) has to do is walk up to a mob, hit sneak, watch their social/threat radius shrink, and use a ranged weapon on one of them.

That sounds a lot easier than what goes on now. Splitting melee is easy, yes, but casters can still cause problems. And it should be even harder if resisted spells broke FD which I understand they should.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you read my quote from the guide? The author doesn't even do FD splits any more because all he/she (damn manginas!) has to do is walk up to a mob, hit sneak, watch their social/threat radius shrink, and use a ranged weapon on one of them.

That sounds a lot easier than what goes on now. Splitting melee is easy, yes, but casters can still cause problems. And it should be even harder if resisted spells broke FD which I understand they should.

I don't think this is as easy as you think it is. In order to get a single pull aggro range is only partly reduced on mobs facing you doing this type of "Sneak pull". You cannot just walk up to a mob if you are not in another mob's rear arc. You will get aggro on the mob that is facing you if you get too close.

You will only get the reduced aggro assist radius from Sneak on the targeted mob your are trying to pull if his back is turned. If another mob is facing you the aggro range is only partly reduced on that mob.

The reason why this works is because you are out of aggro range of the mob that IS facing you but behind the mob you want to pull. When you pull the mob that has his back turned, his assist range is reduced and the other will not aggro as long as you are still outside of the aggro range.

Anyway, this is why it should be very difficult to perform here.

You had to be extremely good to pull this off because as soon as you fired a projectile your Sneak was off and normal assist/aggro radius applied.

Sneak disengaged before this patch when you were hit or hit by something(Referencing my previous post about the projectile system):

Sneak only breaks when a character is hit, not when he hits someone.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020508.html

One other note on this:

I am unsure how it worked before this patch when you would Sneak while using a projectile.

Player Sneaks
Player shoots projectile -- Sneak disengages as soon as its thrown

OR

Player Sneaks
Player shoots projectile -- Sneak disengages only if target is actually hit

[Splorf22]

Yeah on my monk twink I use sneak all the time, for example the mob in the pit at Mistmoore that is facing the other direction. However, if you reread the quote:

With the changes to Sneak (no longer dropping when you use a thrown weapon ) another use has come up! In order for this to work, you must be using a ranged weapon with a ranger greater then the static aggro of the mob ( ie method # 3 listed above): engage sneak, throw, insta split. Personally I'm using summoned suriken for this, and I haven't had to use FD on a split since I got back into EQ. This includes splitting spawns where the mobs are literally on top of each other, although some times I have hit the mob i didn't have targeted, I have never aggro'ed the other.

that doesn't sound like something that only works under very limited circumstances. But maybe she just always grouped with another monk or something. A couple other interesting quotes:

I think a few posts mention the use of Sneak to help drop agro after FD.

I can't prove that it works but at lvl 55 I use this method all of the time. I FD, after the mob walks away I sneak and then stand up. For some reason I believe my odds are much better that the agro will drop (or memory wipe or whatever its called).

This is probably my most popluar use of sneak and I have it hot buttoned next to my FD button as I use it all the time.

SOLB, King Room (where targin spawns)



at 40 just walk by the room and you will aggro 2 or 3 mobs in there

at 45 sneak to the bottom of the ramp, throw a shuriken at the first spawn and bring back one (go ahead and try it with sneak off and you will aggro more than one)

at 46 sneak to the middle of the ramp (and you can single pull every mob with a shuriken, moving to the far right to gank the mob sitting on the throne)

at 47 sneak to the top of the ramp and single pull with shuriken

at 48 no sneak required just walk to middle of ramp, throw shuriken (the first two mobs will come in singles without needing to throw anything at them, I experimneted with 'hailing' them as well)

Unfortunately I think people just didn't have a clear idea of the mechanics of FD/sneak/etc back then.

[Nirgon]

You could actually single pull based off of level alone in some cases. Frogloks at seb entrance were a good example if they weren't boks.

^ Needs research obviously but I'm giving you a direction to go in.

[kanras]

NPCs will only remove PCs from feign memory on successful blur rolls, pending update. As before, Invis/Sneak/Hide will still prevent re-aggro while they're up, but once they are broken the PC is fair game.