Game Mechanics: Sneak and CoS Pulling (Monks/Necros/SKs)

[Xadion]

also note on live with fd that when the mobs got back to their spawn point there was a certain chance (or full%) of forgetting, also there was a chance for full mem wipe on fd and it was per mob.. Sometimes I would pull 5 mobs fd, let them wonder back (mob return to home timers where not always the same, so sometimes 3 would stay, 1 would return instantly and a few would be between instantly returning and awaiting the 'max' time to go home)

anywho I could stand, insta invs, break invs for reagro on nonmemwiped, invs and let the 2 or so come back, re fd...rinse and repeated till 1.

[Daliant17447]

> November 16th, 4:30pm
> ---------------------
>
> Feign Death was recently changed by the Tuning Team to reflect evolving
> gameplay issues. Since two of the three classes that get Feign Death get
it
> through spells, I thought this might be a good place to explain the
changes.
>
> Previously, when you used Feign Death (and assuming you cast the spell
> successfully or, in the case of the Monk, made your skill roll) hostile
> monsters would decided that you were dead and wander off. When you later
> got up, they would still remember that they were angry with you. If you
> were within sight, they would immediately come after you. If not, they
> would come after you at some later point. This might happen within a few
> minutes, or could happen even a few hours later. The only way to be
> absolutely sure that a monster had forgotten about you was to zone.
>
> With our new changes, about a third of the time that you successfully
Feign
> Death, the monster will immediately forget about you, similar to an
> Enchanter casting Memory Blur. If they do NOT forget about you, they will
> immediately come after you when you stand up. No more monsters coming
back
> at irregular amounts of time - it should be immediate or not at all.
>
> This is a change - the old way, if you Feigned Death a SINGLE TIME, the
> monster would ALWAYS remember you. This way, they remember you about
> two-thirds of the time.
>
> Using the old Feign Death, you could Feign Death multiple times to try to
> confuse the monster. After about seven or eight times doing this, most
> monsters would eventually forget they were mad at you.
>
> With the new Feign Death, if you Feign Death once the monster has about a
65
> percent chance of remembering you. Twice and the monster has about a 50
> percent chance of remembering you. Four times means about 20 percent, and
> six times means about 8 percent. This is very similar to the old Feign
> Death.
>
> Another addition to the new Feign Death involves a monster "going home."
> When you Feign Death, most monsters will return to where they were before
> the fight. If a monster returns to its initial location, it will
> immediately forget about you greater then 90 percent of the time.
> Therefore, if you Feign Death and stay down long enough for a monster to
"go
> home," you should be safe when you stand up a majority of the time. If
the
> monster IS still mad at you, it will return immediately, rather then
> wandering back later at some irregular interval.
>
>
> *FEIGN DEATH UPDATE*
>
> After further testing and watching these changes on the Live verses the
Test
> Server, we will bechanging Feign Death again on the next patch.
>
> New changes will make it so that if the creature is less than level 35,
the
> monster will always forget about you. If the creature greater then level
35,
> then the monster will use the changes detailed above.
>
> - The EverQuest Team

[Xadion]

Yeah....what dalliant lover of ice cave techno dancers said!

whats the date on that Nov patch?

see: my thoughts above are not random shit :-P I remebered stuff correctly gold star for me! lolz

[Daliant17447]

Pretty sure its from Nov 99

[Infested]

It was 1999. It actually went live with the dec 1st patch though:

------------------------------
December 1, 1999 7:00am
------------------------------

The following changes and enhancements have been introduced with the
latest patch:

*Monk Enhancements*
-The Feign Death changes which were mentioned on November 16th are now
live.

[Xadion]

ahh thanks, so...when this gets pushed it should function as posted and ref in the above patch notes.

[Treats]

More info here also from a Q&A that Gordon did:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...st/SsveEiscx_c

This was a reply by gordon to some questions that was posted on a
www
char site. It is sufficiently informative that i deemed it
worthwhile
to post here.

My comments are interspersed.

> Gordon
> Well, here's my reply to the various issues I've seen brought
up. I
> think I've covered the majority of them that weren't already
> addressed by Brad

> >>> Why was feign death changed?

> Feign death was broken, and there were 2 bugs at work.

> 1. When you successfully feigned, you were never removed from
the creatures hate list unless you feigned 7 times.
> 2. However, the creature would not remember that it hated you
until it engaged something else.

> Example: Bob the Monk attacks a guard. Bob runs away and
feigns. The Guard says áOh, he just fell over deadá
> and goes back to his spawn point. Bob gets up and starts
chatting with the Guard. The Guard says, áOne second
> Bob, I have to go kill this moss snakeá.*kills snake*á Er,
Bob, didnát you attack me a bit ago? Monks like you
> have ruined your own lands, youáll not ruin mine!á

> The first change to Feign Death fixed bug #2. The down side to
this was that the first bug became apparent.
> Anything that was feigned on would instantly remember the monk
when he stood back up. This caused a ton of
> problems so a set of changes was put in to effect the
following:

> 1. Creatures level 31 or below will always forget you (100%)
if youáve successfully feigned and they miss their
> ásee through feigná skill check (same check existed before).
> 2. Creatures 32 or above will always (100%) forget you if
theyáve returned to their spawn point.
> 2a. If they havenát yet returned to their spawn point, they
have a good chance to forget you.
> 3. Roamers (creatures without spawnpoints) have a good chance
to forget you.

> So, the bottom line:

> Before, if you feigned on something, and ran off to do
something else, it would come running after you the moment
> it got done fighting something else, and was libel to bring
the entire zone with it, at any point up until the time you
> zoned. The upside of this was that if you were in the only
group fighting in an area, the chances of this happening
> was rather small. You could also feign multiple times until
you got a single critter from a group.

> After, if something is going to remember you, it is going to
remember you right away. Itás still libel to bring the
> entire zone, but you might be able to get it off of you for
good by feigning multiple times. The downside is that
> your chance of successfully getting rid of a critter is tied
exponentially to the number of critters of which you are
> trying to lose. For instance, if you are feigning on 1
critter, you will get rid of it for good in an average of 2
feigns.
> With 2 critters on you, itáll take an average of 5 feigns.
With 3 itás 13.

> Thatás the long answer. To answer the questions concisely, the
bug with feign death was noticed and fixed because
> Monks were able to pull singles from places that they should,
per game design, have needed an enchanter, druid, or
> the like.

> >>> WHY do necro pets stay alive after a necro feigns?

> Good question. Iáve heard of the cheesy tactic of the
charm/dot/feign. Weáre considering fixing this so that the pet
> behaves as if the owner had went invisible. That means that a
skele pet would commit suicide, and a charmed pet
> would turn on the necro. What do you think? Weád like to get
input before making the change.

> >>>Why were they so broken that THE CENTRAL ability of the
class had to be removed. For monks, it was as
> bad as removing "bind anywhere" from mages.

> I disagree that feign death was the central ability of Monks.
I believe that their central ability is to be a melee class
> that was 90% effective while naked.

It was pointed out in the thread this article was written in that
this is
not true. Even if it was true, the central ability of any class
resting
on the fact it leaves a pretty corpse is darn lame.

> >>>The effect of individual saving throws means you can no
longer feign against groups.

> Well, it depends on the size of the group, but yes, you are
basically right. FD was supposed to be a spell that
> allowed a Monk to save their own life, not to be used as an
offensive measure. As a life-saving maneuver, FD is
> still very effective.

Forgetting the fact that this is now useless for saving you life
if there is
a group of mobs attacking you, ie. most of the time.

[Nirgon]

This was a super hot topic re: charmed/summoned pets and necros solo'ing the ghoul lord room in classic (FD->keep pet).

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This was a super hot topic re: charmed/summoned pets and necros solo'ing the ghoul lord room in classic (FD->keep pet).

Weren't necros soloing the room while afk? Musta been nice to go to school/work and come back max 50 or w.e it was at the time.

[Nirgon]

Part of it was that you could just charm something, throw it at lord, watch it die while FD'd so yes.

Part 2 was how murderous the 49 pet was when wielding fine steel daggers. It took the delay from the daggers but not a change in damage. It was spamming out stupid dmg. So that was another fix. I won't even get into the mage vs necro vs wizard raid debate when wizards didn't have ice comet. Simply put, pet classes were just too godly, the necro having charm (for a time not undead only) was ridics.