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#92
04-19-2011, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Based on results so far, my GUESS is that the sweet (classic) spot is probably somewhere between where it was before and where it is now. I'm guessing that there should be something like a 2% chance per tick for charm to break as a baseline. The things that can raise or lower this, in order of priority, would be... 1 - Level difference (caster-target). For example, if the mob is green, the ChanceToBreakPerTick goes down by a factor of 10 (.20%). If Red, it goes up to 20%. 2 - Spell level seems to have an influence also, since in classic, it was far more common for high-level chanters to get full duration charms than fully twinked low-level chanters. The spell may just change the base value. 3 - MR of target. For example, for every 1 MR below some default, the ChanceToBreakPerTick is dropped by a correspondingly tiny amount. 4 - CHA of caster. For example, for every 1 CHA above some default, the ChanceToBreakPerTick is dropped by a correspondingly tiny amount (an even smaller amount than #3 though). A baseline of 2% ChanceToBreakPerTick would mean charm would average 2:30 (25 ticks would mean 50% odds of a break by then). This would allow you to get unlucky or lucky and it can always break instantly or last full duration.
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Don't be a Kleat...
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#93
04-19-2011, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
1) The maximum duration 2) The maximum level of the charmed mob Uber twinked lowbies were likely experiencing shorter charm durations due to a smaller difference in mob lvl vs. caster level. At level 20 a blue mob is at most like 5 levels lower than you. At level 50 a blue mob can be as much as 12 levels lower than you.
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Baalzy - 57 Gnocro, Baalz - 36 Ikscro, Adra - 51 Hileric, Fatbag Ofcrap - 25 halfuid Red99 Baalz Less - Humger, Baalzy - Ikscro If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it. Picture courtesy of azeth | |||
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#95
04-19-2011, 08:33 PM
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I feel its hard to sit here for those who aren't enchanters or are just wanting a nerf with a straight face and think that what charm is now is completely fair.
I was just messing around in dreadlands and karnors (at lvl 55, with some of the best gear available) and I couldn't get a charm to last more than 30 seconds on anything, using allure or boltran's, on blue or light blue mobs. I think the biggest problem was that charm was lasting the full duration too consistently compared to live. Now, it is breaking far too consistently, far too early. Nerf charm, fine. Don't make the spell useless. I know it's really hard for the devs to mirror live and what we all remember, but anyone sitting here saying that this is the way it was is just saying that to spite some inner hatred towards the enchanter class. What charm is now currently on p99 was not live. What charm was a week ago on p99 was not live. I hope this point echos through to those who aren't listening. Also, please keep in mind that this is not 1999. We are not all noobs anymore to every zone, every spell, every mechanic, every npc.. and I could go on. Playing and knowing a class for over 10 years and learning the ways to properly do a fight and learning and reading strategies over long periods of time is going to help the average enchanter play and do things better. It took time for people to build up the balls to go and try and solo camps, learn the strats, figure things out and do it better. While this might not be a large percentage of why enchanters seemed overpowered on p99, it definitely takes up some percentage. It's probably a reason on whole why there are a lot of good players here. This is all just food for thought. I appreciate the fact that uthgaard and others are actively trying to make it a more fair, balanced, and fun game, however. I know in time they will make it right. | ||
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#98
04-20-2011, 09:58 AM
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quote
03-28-2003, 10:45 AM #124 (permalink) Goshan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 6 -1 Internets charm itsself is NOT broken. Charm is the victim of a changing environment and thusly needs to be modified to keep pace with that environment. I have been using charm for many years in much the same way I use it now. Before any expansions were released, enchanters were soloing the ghoul lord and fire giants area with charmed pets. When kunark was released, we kept pets in groups in Sebilis that doubled the entire groups experience over a 4 or 5 hour experience grind. During Velious, we could charm giants in Kael that easily netted twice the exp normally recieved in an experience group. Velious is where the environments started to change and become much more favorable to charming. Once equipment and player stats started reaching the proportions they did in velious, the risk of charm became trivial. The only problem with Velious and Luclin was that there were not many areas where charm soloing was much more effecient then grouping. So most enchanters ignored the ability. Now we have Planes of Power. There are quite a few things in this expansion that make charming too good to ignore. - Zones typically have wide open spaces where you can outrun mobs - Mobs are spaced farther apart making solo pulling trivial. - Mobs dont summon - Mobs have generally low hit points and defense.(This would seem to be the charm equalizer. But doesnt work) - Mobs have extremely high ATK and max hits. Because of these factors, the risk vs. reward is out of whack. When an enchanter can get an aa in 17mins by 2boxing a cleric outside of the group vs grouping and getting an aa every 1-2 hours, there is a problem with risk vs reward.(yes its possible. I have done it at a sustained rate). Back before kunark, we would go solo fire giants for the thrill. IT was damn scary because a charm break at the wrong time meant about an 80% chance of death. With POP, a charm break at the wrong time means you cast the following spells: wom, run til spell gems refresh, mez your pet, retarget the prey, cast root. If it knocks your rune off, pop eldritch rune and root. ZERO risk. none, nada. You have to be a complete and utter idiot to die to a situation like that. But bringing back the idea of summnoing mobs makes my skin crawl. It was a cheesy tactic. It would make charm mostly useless and not worth the time because it will only take 1 charm break to kill an enchanter. Granted, you may escape if charm breaks when no prey is in camp, but if there is prey in camp, you are dead. One wom resist on either your prey or the pet and your dead. Even if you do manage to get wom off, by the time you do, your hp will be so low, the prey will bloodlust onto you and you will be toast before you can do anything about it. If mobs were to summon again, to make charm useful, we would have to be compenstated with an instant low resist root or something. So the real problem is not charm. We have been using charm exactly how it was designed since inception. The real problem is the environment. Of the points listed above: - Wide open spaces: Changing zone designs is out the the question - mob spacing: Might be possible but would have unforseen consequences - Summoning: Think I have covered this one - Low hit points and defense: cant really do anything here. It would unbalance every other class. - Extreme ATK: ding ding ding! We have a winner. Typically enchanters haste their pets. Given a dual wielding pet with haste and a 2boxed druid for heal/snare, charming is the only way to experience!(Hello all you tactics people! And you know who you are :P). So Verants first idea with the 1% slow was a pretty good one but didnt go far enough. These mobs even without haste and dual wield, can tear through their brethren pretty easy. Especially with a botted druid or cleric to heal it. Dire Charm was limited in level for a reason. If you could of dire charmed an Illis and dual wielded and hasted it, a single enchanter could of cleared jugs in Sebilis and given the protector a run for his money. So Verant level limited Dire Charm to 47. The reason they did that was because mobs of that level and lower didnt have enough ATK to do amazing feats. The reason I use Dire Charm as an example is simple. The risk vs reward of a high level pet that was perma charmed was deemed out of whack by Verant. Basically, given the environmental variables mentioned above, you have the same situation. Mobs that are permacharmed with very little risk. Even thoguh they do break, a broken pet in wide open pop zones is pretty trivial to recharm. Given this logic, the reasonable thing to do would be to add an effect to charm that lowered a mobs melee level to a much lower level(I am thinking 57). Kind of like those ae's in the spell database that lower a characters spell casting level. This would greatly reduce their attack and defense. It would still allow us to dual wield and haste where it was allowed, but their average hit would be for much less. When charm broke, because the effect was part of the charm it would wear off and the mob would go back to its normal level. This doesnt increase the risk of charm but it lowers its overall effectiveness which is really the problem anyway. This would still allow enchanters that like to solo, to be able to solo. But you wont be able to earn AA at astronomical rates. I still think it should be faster then a group but only slighly so. MAybe 50mins or so per aa. It also addresses melee issues that an enchanter makes them somewhat worthless in groups. In conclusion, Charm does need to be modified so that a charmed pet cannot melee for many multpiles of what the best equipped melee can do. I dont see the problem with charm being in its duration or utility. Its another tool in the enchanters toolbox they can use for crowd control. I dont want it removed. The only problem I see with this are the tier 2 and 3 raid level events that take cod into account. For those tiers cod is an extremely useful tool against Agnarr, Upper cod, Bertox, Rydda, Upper Bot mini's, Mithaniel Marr, and of course Rallos Zek. Some of those encounters would need to be toned down very slightly in their intensity. Thx you ! this is how i remember it on live and to the guys that said this : quote I'm going to address point 2. There was already a link posted early and I'm not in the mood to dig it up, but the level of the charm only affects two things: 1) The maximum duration 2) The maximum level of the charmed mob Uber twinked lowbies were likely experiencing shorter charm durations due to a smaller difference in mob lvl vs. caster level. At level 20 a blue mob is at most like 5 levels lower than you. At level 50 a blue mob can be as much as 12 levels lower than you. your right on . charm atm is totally useless and broken. | ||
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Last edited by ziahh; 04-20-2011 at 10:10 AM..
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#100
04-20-2011, 12:36 PM
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i couldnt quote a quote so if that make me a retard then so be it. iam sure you could be as much retarded since you cant reead the previous page. there is a link to what i quoted...
and there is it since u cant read the previous post : http://www.fohguild.org/forums/90145-post124.html | ||
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