Malo + Slow, is Malosini worth it?

[Erica]

In situations where you need malo, do you think it is best to try to sini as well if your only goal is to land slow asap? I see three options:

1: Malo, then slow until slow lands.
2: Malo, then sini until it lands, then slow till it lands.
3: Malo, then alternate between slow and 1 or 2 sini until slow lands.

Personally, I use option 1 and use turgurs rather than the longer cast, lower mana option of togors. My reasoning is, slow and sini should have exactly the same chance of landing. So if you get 3 resists then your first spell lands... if you were casting slow, it would be slowed. If you were doing sini, you'd still need to slow and your slow can still be resisted easily with the extra -20 sini gave over malo.

I typically only wil use sini if I will need to reslow later, or if additional spells need to hit the target and the fight will be a long-ish one. I could see an argument for method 3, but I think in the end you will be spending more mana than you would if you'd just keep using method 1, since slow is 250 mana and sini is 200.

So which method do you use when you need a debuff to help you slow? Do you do something else completely?

[icedwards]

Are we talking mobs that need to be slowed ASAP? Cliff golems, Lodizal, ToV dragons? Mem Turgur's in the first spell slot so it refreshes immediately, open with Malo, then spam slow until it sticks. Once slowed you can bust out your Tash stick and land a Malosini if soloing, if raiding you'll want to keep an eye on your slow timer and have a bard refresh OOS.

[Erica]

Yes when the goal is to slow ASAP like harder solo/duo/group targets, ToV, etc.

[EdTuBrutus]

If you can land Malosini, you can land Slow.

They have an identical resist check.

So Turgur should always be cast first.

However, Turgur has a refresh delay of 3.0 seconds and Malosini has a cast time of 3.0. So unless you are putting Turgur in Slot 1 (which, most of the time, should be Canni 4) then it is a decent idea to clickie switch between Turgur and Malosini casts.

[icedwards]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So unless you are putting Turgur in Slot 1 (which, most of the time, should be Canni 4) then it is a decent idea to clickie switch between Turgur and Malosini casts.

Dicking around in some PUG or soloing an easy camp? Sure. Anything that needs to be slowed immediately (like Lodizal or ToV dragons) you should always have Turgurs in your first spell slot. Be comfortable moving your spells around.

[Baler]

Malo -45 resist for all resists except poison and disease.
Malosini -60 resist for all resists except poison and disease.
(primarily we're looking at magic resist. -60 is 15 more points better than -45..)
Is it worth it? YES The lower the MR on the target the better for everyone in the party/etc

1. Cast Malo
2. Cast Malosini
3. Cast Slow
4. ???
5. Profit

Exception to this is if your mana is low and or you're having trouble keeping your mana up.
Canni dance harder, if you're at full life and not full mana you're not being an effective shaman.

Malosini 200 mana
Malo 350 mana

If you're smart or lucky your specialization is Alteration. So you'll be able to cast both for slightly less mana.

Turgur's Insects (lvl 51) 250 mana
Togor's Insects (lvl 39) 175 mana

Use turgurs on the big boy targets and torgors on trash stuff. And again alteration specialization applies to these.

So on a big boy target you're looking at less than ~800 mana dump (malo, malosini, slow)
21.052 canni 3's (if the wiki is correct) to refill that 800.
which doesn't take a long time if you have people filling roles. If it's you playing several roles for a group. that could be tricky or not possible.

-
It's a roll of the dice on some mobs. Sometimes you can land malosini first try, other times it takes 10+ tries to land it. Malo is nice because it's unresistible and lowers their MR by -45 making it easier to land the malosini. Unless the mob can't be malo'd.

Solo I encourage you to get a tash stick. But if you have a real enchanter. get them to slam the mob with their best tash before you attempt a malosini.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Malo -45 resist for all resists except poison and disease.
Malosini -60 resist for all resists except poison and disease.
(primarily we're looking at magic resist. -60 is 15 more points better than -45..)
Is it worth it? YES The lower the MR on the target the better for everyone in the party/etc

1. Cast Malo
2. Cast Malosini
3. Cast Slow
4. ???
5. Profit

Exception to this is if your mana is low and or you're having trouble keeping your mana up.
Canni dance harder, if you're at full life and not full mana you're not being an effective shaman.

Malosini 200 mana
Malo 350 mana

If you're smart or lucky your specialization is Alteration. So you'll be able to cast both for slightly less mana.

Turgur's Insects (lvl 51) 250 mana
Togor's Insects (lvl 39) 175 mana

Use turgurs on the big boy targets and torgors on trash stuff. And again alteration specialization applies to these.

So on a big boy target you're looking at less than ~800 mana dump (malo, malosini, slow)
21.052 canni 3's (if the wiki is correct) to refill that 800.
which doesn't take a long time if you have people filling roles. If it's you playing several roles for a group. that could be tricky or not possible.

-
It's a roll of the dice on some mobs. Sometimes you can land malosini first try, other times it takes 10+ tries to land it. Malo is nice because it's unresistible and lowers their MR by -45 making it easier to land the malosini. Unless the mob can't be malo'd.

Solo I encourage you to get a tash stick. But if you have a real enchanter. get them to slam the mob with their best tash before you attempt a malosini.

Again, I'll repeat.

If you can land Malosini on a mob, you can land Slow.

They have identical resist checks. There is no reason to cast Malosini as the next spell after Malo on a Slowable mob. Ever.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by icedwards [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dicking around in some PUG or soloing an easy camp? Sure. Anything that needs to be slowed immediately (like Lodizal or ToV dragons) you should always have Turgurs in your first spell slot. Be comfortable moving your spells around.

I said most of the time. There really are very few occasions and set ups where you need to slot 1 Turgur. EQ isn't a twitch game, the encounters are set up and the mechanics work in a way where there really isn't a need for that.

[icedwards]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said most of the time. There really are very few occasions and set ups where you need to slot 1 Turgur. EQ isn't a twitch game, the encounters are set up and the mechanics work in a way where there really isn't a need for that.

I'd argue any encounter OP references (where Turgurs is prone to being resisted even after Malo) you should have Turgurs in slot 1.

You're 100% correct for malosini. It's a luxury for re-slowing, get that first one off before worrying about sticking the extra MR debuff.

[Troxx]

5% away from 60 so no Malo yet.

For mobs that need a slow early I usually have both turgurs and togors loaded as you can instaclick btw casts and chain slow a bit faster until it lands. At 60 I'd malo first then alternate the slows until one sticks.

Do any of you other higher end shams use togors regularly? Only 5% less slow and the shorter duration doesn't matter for most fights - 75 less mana a cast. I still sometimes break out Tagars for faster pulling groups if I'm at all lower on mana.

Cast time does suck though.