Spells: 100 MR to resist MR nuke. 350 FR to reduce FR nuke.

[Technique]

Spells have effect slots. Higher level buffs tend to not only have multiple effects, but many of them also have slots occupied with what can only be described as "filler" effects (they're parsed as being blank? or Charisma with no value), which was probably the workaround necessary to make them stack with other spells that had the same effect because of how crude the stacking system was.

For example, in kunark/velious-era spdats, Symbol of Marzin has the first 2 effect slots taken up by the aforementioned filler effects, while the following two slots contain the buff's defining effects:

• Increase Max Hitpoints by 640 (L54) to 700 (L60)
• Increase HP when cast by 640 (L54) to 700 (L60)

Even the live Lucy entry for SoM still lists these effects as being in slots 3 and 4, respectively.

Now I don't believe these slots were considered "counters" in the same sense as poison/disease counters (the cure mechanics were a different system), but comparing the number of effect slots used by a particular spell vs. what's supposedly the "strength" value of various dispels, it might shed some light on why Cancel Magic (1) would remove something like See Invis (only 1 effect slot), but not Symbol (4 effect slots).

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can make something up for buff strength to simmulate the behavior.

How about we try testing a theory of how it actually works/worked on Live before you just leap in and cob job something together like you're doing with the resist system.

[Grimjaw]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What mobs beside phinny and inny should do random order?

I can make something up for buff strength to simmulate the behavior.

Working on breaking position updates for players using map hacks in pvp (thanks for the reminder salty).

H

I honestly thought this was already the case. Because tracking players is broken. It tracks them to their zone-in spot instead of their updated location. (like u already don't get the right player location) The only time you actually receive the players updated location is if you get close enough to where you can actually see them on screen.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I honestly thought this was already the case. Because tracking players is broken. It tracks them to their zone-in spot instead of their updated location. (like u already don't get the right player location) The only time you actually receive the players updated location is if you get close enough to where you can actually see them on screen.

Good to know. I will look at tracking players.

H

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now I don't believe these slots were considered "counters" in the same sense as poison/disease counters (the cure mechanics were a different system), but comparing the number of effect slots used by a particular spell vs. what's supposedly the "strength" value of various dispels, it might shed some light on why Cancel Magic (1) would remove something like See Invis (only 1 effect slot), but not Symbol (4 effect slots).


How about we try testing a theory of how it actually works/worked on Live before you just leap in and cob job something together like you're doing with the resist system.

Cancel magic would dispel anything given enough casts...

There were definitely counters.

[Nirgon]

Cures ever have a "skip over and try for the ones it can" approach? Dun think so.

[Dullah]

Maybe I should create a new thread for this dispel stuff, but its somewhat relevant to the whole spell discussion.


circa 2003
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?p=178405

As to the dispel magic line, it gets chances to dispel magic effects, good or bad. The higher level ones are stronger when it comes to stripping effects. Effects that are higher level and/or from a higher level caster are harder to remove. But unlike the counter types, you don't know for sure. There's no nice numbers given. They also seem to have a tendency to try multiple spells down the line, so a dispel magic could strip your 7th buff. Almost seems like it gets to try every buff until it succeeds or fails them all. Like counter remover spells, dispel magics can have multiple lines. Recant magic, for example, has:
1: Cancel Magic(9)
2: Cancel Magic(9)
3: Cancel Magic(9)
4: Cancel Magic(9)

That allows it to strip 4 buffs. For any player class besides enchanter though, the max is 2.

[Grimjaw]

good stuff.

so would recant always take the top 4 then?

[Gigaslash]

Recant Magic would ALWAYS take all 4 buffs because no buff could be stronger than 9 counters.

[Gigaslash]

Dullah is correct though that if you casted Cancel magic and it didn't take off your heroism because it was your only buff, a couple more cancel magics would get it eventually. So the counters need to be tracked. Not sure if they carry over between zoning, probably not.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Gigaslash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dullah is correct though that if you casted Cancel magic and it didn't take off your heroism because it was your only buff, a couple more cancel magics would get it eventually. So the counters need to be tracked. Not sure if they carry over between zoning, probably not.

Anyone able to test this on eqlive?