Mob run speed?

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by integrable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well it is and it isnt. Yes, swarming is classic, but no casual hardware could support 100 mob swarms in 1999. You would lag and get killed before you got more than 20 or 30 mobs following you.

True, the amount of people swarming on live vs now is not classic, however swarming 100 mobs was definitely doable back then. I had no problems swarming most of a zone back then, but I also had pretty high end hardware and played on a non-commercial internet connection or dual 56k.

Same issue as boxing, it was classic but better hardware and no monthly fee opens it up to more players. This is an issue that should be resolved with a policy change rather than a balance change, I hope Haynar takes a moment to consider this perspective before pushing nerfs just because he doesn't like the class. There's no issue with swarming if you boot the swarmers out of starting zones -- realistically, how many new players level in OT/LS/Karanas? Why do you think sony gave bards the best move speed buff in the game with AoE's that do like 6 damage? Why do you think one of the first Kunark spells was an AoE slow? Swarming was clearly intended to be in the game.

Disclaimer: I don't even swarm kite and my bard is already leveled, I just hate seeing very non-classic game balance changes like what Haynar is alluding to when other obtuse-as-fuck game mechanics with significantly further reaching game balance consequences like AoN are intentionally left in only because they're "classic." I have nothing to gain or lose one way or another.

[Rararboker]

Did you really say that the number of people swarming isn't classic? That statement makes no sense, you know that right?

I see statements like this a lot. That is like saying people play monks too often and it isn't classic. Mechanics can or cannot be classic. What people do with those mechanics cannot be classified as classic or not. That is just ridiculous.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by Rararboker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you really say that the number of people swarming isn't classic? That statement makes no sense, you know that right?

I see statements like this a lot. That is like saying people play monks too often and it isn't classic. Mechanics can or cannot be classic. What people do with those mechanics cannot be classified as classic or not. That is just ridiculous.

Oh I wholly agree with you, I was just pointing out that the "bard's couldn't swarm 100 mobs on 1999 hardware" statement is absolutely false but conceding that it is fair to say that more people swarm now. This is the exact same reason why multi boxing was allowed on live, and not on project 1999. Multi boxing was solved through a game policy change, not by nerfing wizard nukes. This should be no different. I personally see no issue with swarming how the game balance and server rules currently stand, and if camp rules aren't being enforced on the server that's a matter of needing more active guides on the server than nerfing a class. People always act like bards just come in the zone and pull everything, but fail to recognize this is already against the server rules if the bard interferes with a player's camp.

I'm with you on that. Anyone who's remotely familiar with the bard's abilities should be able to tell that swarm kiting mobs was a mechanic that Sony intended to be in the game. Without swarm kiting what is the use of the AoE songs? Why did Sony give Bards a swarm kiting song as the second song they get in Kunark (hint: to help them push for 60 by swarm kiting, regardless of if this is what people actually do or not) Why are Horns in the game?

All of these are questions that people can't answer, if they think swarming isn't classic. I'm just posting in hopes Haynar takes a moment to consider the points I'm bringing up before he pushes for Bard nerfs. Just trying to constructively offer what I think to be better solutions to the problem.

[rollin5k]

Im outrunning aviaks in SK with jboots. Gross exaggeration to say they are out running sow. They are faster though for sure

[RyoGTO]

Originally Posted by rollin5k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im outrunning aviaks in SK with jboots. Gross exaggeration to say they are out running sow. They are faster though for sure

definitely depends on the mob as some others pointed out, but all running faster.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by rollin5k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im outrunning aviaks in SK with jboots. Gross exaggeration to say they are out running sow. They are faster though for sure

Depends on the mobs. Some shaman mobs with SoW will outrun a Selo's bard right now. Not everything is running at the same speed right now. Aviaks are particularly slow mobs in the first place, it's not like you're talking about raptors or cats.

[integrable]

Originally Posted by Xaanka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True, the amount of people swarming on live vs now is not classic, however swarming 100 mobs was definitely doable back then. I had no problems swarming most of a zone back then, but I also had pretty high end hardware and played on a non-commercial internet connection or dual 56k.

Sorry gonna call bullshit. What graphics card were you using that could handle rendering 100 mobs? How much RAM did you have? You would be lucky to get 64MB, 300 Hz card for $1000 circa the year 2000. And a good card back then had a 128 bit bus at best. And really? dual 56k? I ran off a T1 and I would lag. You're running off dual 56k? gtfo of here. I got a geforce4 in 2002 and it lagged so hard in the bazaar i had to look at the floor. Youre full of shit.

[DarthMartigan]

Originally Posted by Xaanka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Depends on the mobs. Some shaman mobs with SoW will outrun a Selo's bard right now. Not everything is running at the same speed right now. Aviaks are particularly slow mobs in the first place, it's not like you're talking about raptors or cats.

This is exactly right. I was able to do some bard kiting on birds and cacti in OT, but one cacti was running faster than selos strafing.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by integrable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry gonna call bullshit. What graphics card were you using that could handle rendering 100 mobs? How much RAM did you have? You would be lucky to get 64MB, 300 Hz card for $1000 circa the year 2000. And a good card back then had a 128 bit bus at best. And really? dual 56k? I ran off a T1 and I would lag. You're running off dual 56k? gtfo of here. I got a geforce4 in 2002 and it lagged so hard in the bazaar i had to look at the floor. Youre full of shit.

You would lag off a T1 line? I was mostly swarming off T1 but dual 56k at home and both were doable. Dual 56k is actually pretty low latency and competitive with modern broadband in that regard, and bandwidth/reliability isn't the bottleneck with swarming. I don't remember what hardware I bought a decade and a half ago but ATI and nvidia both offered 128mb cards at a $200-300 price point in 2000. Shit I think even 3DFX did as well. Sounds like you're pulling this out your ass and your box was full of trojans in the 90's. I'll spare you the "let me google this for you" link.

Again, knowledge of the class and game mechanics was the limiting factor for swarm kiting back in classic, you don't need to pull the zone for it to be fast -- even on peasant-tier hardware you could render 20-30 mobs. Plenty of bards on Ayonae Ro and Xegony swarmed, where I played. SoE was well aware of swarming, and never nerfed it - instead, they gave bards an AoE snare to assist in swarming in the game's first expansion.

[integrable]

Originally Posted by Xaanka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't remember what hardware I bought a decade and a half ago but ATI and nvidia both offered 128mb cards at a $200-300 price point in 2000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ts#Pre-GeForce

Honestly I could be off on the price but the first 128 card didn't come out until '99. And they were like 150 Hz cards. Theres no way a card like that could render that many moving models without insane frame rate droppage.

And ya lag spikes still occured on a T1.